I’ve come across a lot of people here and in other corners of the interwebz who are extremely adamant and passionate about the response the U.S. should have toward the humanitarian crisis and murder campaign that is currently being waged against the people of Palestine.
They are so staunch in their position against the fact the Biden Administration has supplied weapons and military financial support to Israel in support of this campaign, they vow to vote for a third party candidate or not vote at all.
I get it. I am completely with you on your opinion of how fucked it is that we are supporting Bibi’s Zionist movement in the region.
But Rep Acasio-Cortez articulates rather well why she is voting for #HarrisWalz and why I am too.
Harris can be moved. I believe Harris can change course in Gaza. I believe Harris can be persuaded to place an embargo on Israel. Trump absolutely cannot. And under a Trump presidency so many others will be hurt beyond just those in Gaza.
Aral Balkan
in reply to Wren Archer:bc::trans_heart:🏹 • • •So her argument is:
Do you want just genocide for others with Kamala or genocide for others and more suffering at home with Donald.
I guess it makes sense if you take the genocide of the Palestinian people as a natural baseline.
If only there was a third way. Oh, I don’t know, like not selling billions of dollars of arms and committing genocide.
But I guess that’s a very high bar for American morality.
Moonslime
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Moonslime • • •@Moonslime “you are potentially causing more harm than good with your ‘unapologetic anti-genocide’ ridiculousnes”
Do you even hear yourself?
For shame.
Osteopenia Powers
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •In 1968, frustrated opponents of the Vietnam War allowed (compulsive liar, demagogue, and far-right troll) Richard Nixon to defeat Vice President Hubert Humphrey for US President.
Nixon not only stepped up the genocide, he added another in Cambodia, and tacked on some coups in Latin America.
Beware of false equivalencies.
FelisCatus
in reply to Osteopenia Powers • • •Osteopenia Powers
in reply to FelisCatus • • •Well, here's the thing. Both Nixon and Johnson/Humphrey promised to end the war. Nixon, being the POS that he was, secretly torpedoed the Democratic plan. Then he went on with the war for 4 more years, escalated troops and bombing, and destroyed a few bonus countries.
So, NO!
I blame Nixon and those who failed to distinguish between him and Humphrey.
Osteopenia Powers
in reply to Osteopenia Powers • • •So there were two paths. The world got the more bellicose path.
There are two paths today. Don't tell me they're the same.
Aral Balkan
in reply to Osteopenia Powers • • •JeffreySmith 🌻🍉
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Boy, Aral, I don't always agree with you, but I must say, you provoke the most ludicrous, convoluted responses from people who would like to free Israel and it's supporters in America from any criticism for perpetuating a genocide. That said, I agree with Wren, that there may be a meaningful difference between full time fascist Mr. Trump, and V. P. Harris who is reluctant to disagree with her genocide supporting boss, Pres. Biden.
Brie
in reply to Wren Archer:bc::trans_heart:🏹 • • •What do you base this idea that Harris can be moved on this on?
Because people have been pressuring her, very hard, and she hasn't moved an inch.
I honestly believe there is a better chance of the genocide ending under Trump than under Harris. Not because he opposes it, of course- he probably supports it even more than she does. But liberals will suddenly oppose it once it's not a Democrat in charge of it, and Trump's antisemitism, "America First" mindset, and overall impulsiveness might actually make him get sick of sending billions of dollars to Israel.
Obviously the chance is still extremely small. But the only way for Harris to win the votes of people who oppose genocide is for her to actually oppose genocide, not fantasies about how she might oppose it someday in the future.
Jennifer
in reply to Brie • • •Brie
in reply to Jennifer • • •Coach Mark 🇮🇪🇺🇲🏒🎸
in reply to Brie • • •@TheBrieze Your logic is a bit wonky - If trump wins - why do you think he'd give a flying f*ck what liberals think and why do you think he'd even think for a second to bowing to any pressure from the left? When has he ever done such a thing that you can use as predictive behavior of this sort from him or his extreme right wing supporters?
The more likely response from trump would be to double down on his support for his pal Bibi "to own the libs"
@Jennifer
Brie
in reply to Coach Mark 🇮🇪🇺🇲🏒🎸 • • •Coach Mark 🇮🇪🇺🇲🏒🎸
in reply to Brie • • •@TheBrieze so in your scenario - if trump were to win, you believe there would/could be enough pressure in Congress to force his hand to end sending aid and munitions to Israel....... correct? Some type of congressional pressure for an arms embargo as it relates to support for Israel?
You think this scenario holds a better chance of happening more so than a Harris win, and subsequent gains in the House and possibly Senate for Democratic Party candidates due to greater blue voter turnout helping to tip the scales in favor of a majority in Congress falling in favor of a tougher stance vs. Bibi and his Zionists?
Did I get that correct?
Remember a trump win could also mean the GOP gains seats in the Senate and possibly a much larger majority in the House - thus fewer liberals in Congress to put said pressure on the president.
I'm just struggling to find any scenario where a trump presidency could be better for Palestinian civilians - especially Palestinian wome
... Show more...@TheBrieze so in your scenario - if trump were to win, you believe there would/could be enough pressure in Congress to force his hand to end sending aid and munitions to Israel....... correct? Some type of congressional pressure for an arms embargo as it relates to support for Israel?
You think this scenario holds a better chance of happening more so than a Harris win, and subsequent gains in the House and possibly Senate for Democratic Party candidates due to greater blue voter turnout helping to tip the scales in favor of a majority in Congress falling in favor of a tougher stance vs. Bibi and his Zionists?
Did I get that correct?
Remember a trump win could also mean the GOP gains seats in the Senate and possibly a much larger majority in the House - thus fewer liberals in Congress to put said pressure on the president.
I'm just struggling to find any scenario where a trump presidency could be better for Palestinian civilians - especially Palestinian women and children.
All I see is a trump administration that would double or triple down on support for Bibi and his Zionist followers while also removing critical support for Ukraine - at a time when Ukraine is making inroads into Russian territory thus giving it a potentially favorable buffer zone from Russian aggression and a possible bargaining chip for ceasefire negotiations with Putin (You give us our territory back and we'll gladly return that which we've taken from you, Vlad, old chap).
That's just on foreign policy.
I think we know the absolute carnage a trump administration would mean for domestic policy on all fronts including climate change/environmental policy roll backs; punishing policies as it relates to LGBTQ+rights and civil rights at large, gutting of public education; a national abortion ban and strict government oversight of one's health choices; no chance whatsoever for sensible gun control legislation and policies; an economic policy that would benefit the ultra wealthy while his plan for massive tariffs would put an increased burden on low income and middle income citizens; potential mass deportation of immigrants; greater measures and moves away from democracy and more towards authoritarianism and on and on.
As the new slogan goes "We're NOT going back."
Going Forward by voting FOR Harris-Walz is the only way to go.
Brie
in reply to Coach Mark 🇮🇪🇺🇲🏒🎸 • • •@CoachMark No, your understanding of what I wrote is very poor. I do not think that Congress would force Trump's hand to stop sending aid to Israel if Trump wins. I think there is a very small chance of that happening, and that small chance is greater than the essentially nonexistent chance that Harris stops aid to Israel (since liberals will continue blindly supporting genocide as long as someone from their team is doing it).
The only way to move forward is to choose leaders who oppose genocide. You should pressure Harris/Walz to oppose genocide, so they can win the votes of people who want to stop genocide!
Coach Mark 🇮🇪🇺🇲🏒🎸
in reply to Brie • • •@TheBrieze Oh plenty of us are doing so.
With that said - who do you plan on voting for and do you fully understand the ramifications of that voting plan as it relates to not only Palestine, but the other pressing global and domestic issues at stake in this election?
Brie
in reply to Coach Mark 🇮🇪🇺🇲🏒🎸 • • •Coach Mark 🇮🇪🇺🇲🏒🎸
in reply to Brie • • •@TheBrieze I've written letters to the White House as well as to my Representative, Jahanna Hayes, as well as Senator, Chris Murphy as it relates to Palestine/Gaza and will continue to do so.
And you?
Easelbitch™️:verified: 07Oct23
in reply to Coach Mark 🇮🇪🇺🇲🏒🎸 • • •@CoachMark
https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
Contact Us | The White House
The White HouseEaselbitch™️:verified: 07Oct23 reshared this.
Coach Mark 🇮🇪🇺🇲🏒🎸
in reply to Easelbitch™️:verified: 07Oct23 • • •Wren Archer:bc::trans_heart:🏹
in reply to Jennifer • • •@Jennifer @TheBrieze
Brie…
Girl, I don’t know what else to tell you. Is she flat out lying about her position on Gaza? Is it inaccurate that she spoke with Bibi about cutting a deal?
I mean… yeah, maybe. She’s a politician so i guess it’s possible she’s lying.
But what is the other choice? Is it a protest vote for Jill Stein?… because she’s got her hands dirty from killing Gazans as well. Is it protest vote for the Libertarian? What about the Democratic Socialist candidate or the Communist Party candidate. Because yeah… there is TOTALLY a chance any of them can win the presidency.
Let’s say by some miracle a third party candidate did win. How on earth would that president possibly be able to move an agenda or create public policy with a Congress that is not in his or her corner?
So what
... Show more...@Jennifer @TheBrieze
Brie…
Girl, I don’t know what else to tell you. Is she flat out lying about her position on Gaza? Is it inaccurate that she spoke with Bibi about cutting a deal?
I mean… yeah, maybe. She’s a politician so i guess it’s possible she’s lying.
But what is the other choice? Is it a protest vote for Jill Stein?… because she’s got her hands dirty from killing Gazans as well. Is it protest vote for the Libertarian? What about the Democratic Socialist candidate or the Communist Party candidate. Because yeah… there is TOTALLY a chance any of them can win the presidency.
Let’s say by some miracle a third party candidate did win. How on earth would that president possibly be able to move an agenda or create public policy with a Congress that is not in his or her corner?
So what do we do? Do we allow fascism to have a seat in the Oval Office… again? Or do we elect the adult in the room and hope to keep her at her word? Because there truly is no other choice.
Brie
in reply to Wren Archer:bc::trans_heart:🏹 • • •could you elaborate on how Jill Stein has "got her hands dirty from killing Gazans"? (btw they are Palestinians not "Gazans").
If Jill Stein won, she would immediately do as the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 requires, and end all military aid to Israel. At the very least, the level of destruction and killing would massive decrease, but realistically without this aid, Israel would probably crumble and the genocide would end.
Fascism already has a seat in the Oval Office. The election is over which fascist faction holds the office, not fascism vs democracy.
It's Just Jenn 🏳️⚧️
in reply to Brie • • •@TheBrieze
You know, I oppose the fascists in Israel as well, and I don't believe the Biden admin has done nearly enough to dissuade them. But they will absolutely do more than Trump, no matter how many fantasies you have about changing policy with "pressure" by allowing the absolute fascists in office.
And frankly, why does only Palestine matter? Do you have no obligation to the genocide coming for LGBTQ+ people if Trump and his Project 2025 cronies take over? They are going to kill us. And I'm sorry, I can't just ignore that in search for the perfect candidate.
Jeff Shaffer CBET, ret
in reply to It's Just Jenn 🏳️⚧️ • • •Two comments, one for each paragraph of your post. You said that “Biden hasn’t done nearly enough” but it misses the fact that Netanyahu supports his buddy #TheFelonyGuy and won’t be tractable to persuasion until one or the other is in jail.
Second paragraph shows your concern for LGBTQ+ folks. Those folks have no rights to life or liberty in Gaza, so trying to argue for them with a supporter of the Palestinian cause is wasted effort.
@TheBrieze @WrenArcher
Brie
in reply to Jeff Shaffer CBET, ret • • •Jeff Shaffer CBET, ret
in reply to Brie • • •And in a separate Palestinian State, LGBTQ+ will still not have any rights. Don’t paint me as pro genocide, I’m not. I’m also not for killing anyone for their sexual orientation. There are other groups that deserve your sympathy and you have just as little to offer as this does here. We have a choice, to me it’s black or white, good or evil. If you see grey somehow, then I suggest that you reflect on the big picture. YMMV
Easelbitch™️:verified: 07Oct23
in reply to Jeff Shaffer CBET, ret • • •@CivilityFan
I believe the pro-palis were all a bunch of immature punks looking for a place to exercise youth rebellion and this just happened to fit-sort of; oh well the gray areas. They did not think this through. Haven't seen where any of them went to Gaza. Probably a one way trip and they know it.
My message to the pro-palis; fail better: May 04, 1970, you didnt even rouse the national guard out of its slumber.
#AmYisraelChai #lgbt
Jeff Shaffer CBET, ret
in reply to Easelbitch™️:verified: 07Oct23 • • •That may be descriptive of some of them, but I remember being a protester and reviled by the majority. It’s often conscience that drives youth, but I think it’s confusing why so many today fight against this particular injustice when their are so many others who are suffering - think Sudan & Ukraine among many - where this level of energy could do some real world good.
Let’s stop pretending that Putin didn’t enable the attacks on Oct 7 and that Netanyahu is our ally.
This is all about weakening the USA’s ability to effect the course of world events. In a bad way, imo