Can we trust that isn’t a campaign to promote Google? What are these websites? Why aren’t they blocking an iPhone? Can any of that be replicated or is this just a Google campaign to create fear and doubt
Its basically forced by Google. I mean who wouldn't force it after someone deliberately removes your government sanctioned spyware. See if people stopped calling it google or Apple and just USA spyware with backdoor to your lives it would be better at getting to the privacy issues. I mean the NSA already proved this is a fact.
Nobody likes CAPTCHAs. Now, with iOS 16 on iPhones, a small enabled toggle can make them disappear while improving privacy on your device. Here’s how to check if it’s “on” and try it out.
GrapheneOS user here! Not sure about websites but there are certain apps that don't work properly without Google Play Services, but Graphene's app store has a sandboxed version of it, so I just installed that and revoked all it's permissions. Then if an app needs it, I just turn on the relevant permission, do the thing and then turn permissions off again. It's a bit of a pain at first but I'm used to it now.
Man, I want a phone with physical kill switches for things like Wifi, GPS, Bluetooth, because a lot of things seem to detect when these things are turned 'off' by software. Wonder how they'd react if in software, GPS is enabled, but the actual hardware is not powered at all
They most likely won't work. Just speculation, but I would imagine most software that "needs" information like GPS don't care that its on or off, they care that they try to pull data and there is none.
I'd say making a 2nd user for the apps that need Play Services (like banking and Uber/Lyft) is the move. This only allows Play Services to run when the 2nd user is on and also fully seperates it from the main user!
I'm a grapheneOS user and I don't have any google services installed. I havecyetvto hit any major issues with any apps or websites I use. Lucky, maybe?
I am Canadian. I don't use the rbc app, I use a different bank and use their website. I alao use the skip website when I order there, but I've never heard of the third one.
Sad thing is, that argument works against so many ppl. "I can trust this app. It's from Google!"
We(*) are tearing down personal computing. Brick by brick. The very idea of controling our own devs is getting lost. Replacing with Big Tech Feudalism.
They are most of the way there today. Make Identity Resolution inescapable. Bing bang boom.
It is more than just phones and lappys too. It's everything. That smart TV. That fitness watch. That automobile. That streaming music service. The ebook reader you got as a birthday gift.
Your behavior across every single device is data gold. This is today's reality.
I am in no way condoning Google's behavior, nor am I trying to normalize it. With that out of the way: maybe running Android Studio with an AVD might be a decent workaround. For now...
I see a future where we have our mandated government ID shitphone for banking, corpo and government suchn'shit, and the laptop we access Anna's, Yggdrasil and TOR with.
and the days go by!
Not exactly same as it ever was, but seems kinda 2007 to me. I doubt any Lemmy instance or i2p site will enforce Google's QRcode spy-proxy.
It's not 2007. Devices are everywhere now, smartphones, TV's etc. The social dimension (social pressure) and implications are very different now. Their power increases, amount of people caught in the loop is immense now. 2007 was all still fun and games.
My current GraphineOS phone will probably be my last smartphone. I'll be moving to a dumb phone and a data hotspot connected to some type of cyberdeck. Will have that thing locked down, blocking known abusive companies like Google. Honestly could care less about using any service that touches them.
This does seem to work with sandboxed Google Play Services on GrapheneOS btw.
I scanned the demo QR code on Google's talk page about it with sandboxed Play Services enabled and it gave me a custom popup asking if I'd like to verify.
Unless you're doing that from a separate device in a separate location then all you're doing is giving them the data they need to link those two accounts
You're right, you're not going to achieve complete anonymity if you're interacting with Google services in any way, but you can reduce the amount of information that they receive.
Sandboxed Google Play Services doesn't have privileged access to location information, so it can't pull your GPS location or Wifi Positioning information. It would only see a blank profile and doing this would allow for your primary profile to continue to not run Play Services.
Any malicious code which could be injected into the process would find itself in a sandbox, on a blank profile and isolated from the rest of the system.
Google would only see that you are authenticating from a profile without anything installed, from an unknown location and coming from whatever VPN endpoint that you'd like. They could possibly infer that the blank profile and your 'real' profile are different via browser fingerprinting. You can randomize a lot of fingerprinting datapoints with browser extensions, but avoiding browser fingerprinting is a whole other topic.
The 'real' privacy solution is to a
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You're right, you're not going to achieve complete anonymity if you're interacting with Google services in any way, but you can reduce the amount of information that they receive.
Sandboxed Google Play Services doesn't have privileged access to location information, so it can't pull your GPS location or Wifi Positioning information. It would only see a blank profile and doing this would allow for your primary profile to continue to not run Play Services.
Any malicious code which could be injected into the process would find itself in a sandbox, on a blank profile and isolated from the rest of the system.
Google would only see that you are authenticating from a profile without anything installed, from an unknown location and coming from whatever VPN endpoint that you'd like. They could possibly infer that the blank profile and your 'real' profile are different via browser fingerprinting. You can randomize a lot of fingerprinting datapoints with browser extensions, but avoiding browser fingerprinting is a whole other topic.
The 'real' privacy solution is to avoid anything that uses this version of recaptcha. However, if you have to use these services then you can still reduce the amount of information leaked via Play Services by using a blank profile to scan the QR codes.
You're right, you're not going to achieve complete anonymity if you're interacting with Google services in any way, but you can reduce the amount of information that they receive.
its not even about complete anonymity. google has zero business in when I'm logging into my utilities company account, or other semi-governmental portals!
it has been solved for approximately 2 billion people on this planet, but those answers are not friendly to profit-seeking institutions like google and the only remaining institutions that can stop it are captured by the likes of google
for the record, I don't believe logging in with wechat is any better, and recaptcha is present on the utilities websites of my european country leaning towards china.
This is really bad even just from the perspective of user behavior. Training people to scan QR codes from anything that looks like a captcha box is HORRIBLE for security.
"Thanks for scanning the code, just one more step! Please input your phone number, and type in the code you receive."
And the phone number thing is already happening too. Google, discord and probably other stuff already ask for a phone number to prove you are a human when they flag your account.
It's a server setting. one of my oldest servers has enabled this and I haven't chatted with anyone there anymore because I need to verify my phone first.
I know in what way it's open source. I just don't understand what person this idiot thinks they're mocking when they wrote that. It's as if they think there are really people out there claiming that android/Google respects privacy (lol) and that it's proven by part of the OS being open source. People make up fake scenarios to get mad about and they're often rather ridiculous.
Oh, that’s what you mean. Ok, so every time I mention I have an iPhone because a. I value my privacy and b. I try not to support companies that actively harm the internet, someone says “but Android is open source”, as if merely having a few open source components means that Android is better in any way than any other OS.
In this instance, Google is not only making the internet worse, they’re doing it in a way that requires their own closed source libraries to even access a huge portion of the internet. This further makes any functional Android OS closed source.
The most ridiculous thing is that iOS is almost as open source as Android is. There are very few components of an Android based OS that are open source where the equivalent in iOS is not open source.
Yeah I don't have experience with people really simping for android let alone claiming it's meaningfully open source. The most I've seen is saying it's not nearly as closed off as iOS which is just a fact. And I will say that as well because it's a fact. But that has almost nothing to do with the OSS aspect. Or privacy. So yeah I still don't quite get your point of inserting this here.
I don't use the internet for much these days, but I am on graphine OS and I have yet to be blocked from websites due to it. My adblocker prevents me from some, and not allowing javascript prevents me from some, but I've never seen that QR code or had any site prompt fro Google play services
I had one of these CAPTCHAs recently and it still gave me the option to verify by clicking the squares. I wouldn't be surprised if they phased out the 'legacy' verification though.
It's funny, I hadn't noticed, maybe because any site aleeady using reCAPTCHA or cloudflare alreadt gets blocked by my ad blocker... If those sites can't do better on their own, its just another thing you don't need. This is kind of a nothing burger. Stay strong and let google commit suicide.
Are you blocking Cloudflare at an IP level? Or just when they do that "Are you human?" thing? So much of the Internet goes through Cloudflare for DDoS protection, and blocking AI bots, I'm surprised there's anything left.
You have to move all the black pixel blocks into the empty spaces and solve the puzzle to open the link. Than cenobites come out of your phone and show you pleasures beyond pain.
As I understand it, it's a separate system, kind of like the TOTP 2FA, for comparison, but in this case it would be an additional system, and where normally anyone can use any provider for TOTP, this one is Google only. If websites implement this, and many likely will, you can only use those sites if you have a Google permitted phone that leeches all your private data 24/7
More like a class action EMP attack on data centers. But who knows, maybe the AIs will be the energy shift this world needs to get us out of this mess. They can't code regression corrections to force them into their desired bias ad infinitum. At some point these bots will outsmart it and get good enough to manipulate everything into optimization. Our luck might depend on what their definition of optimized is.
And now I realize how desperate our position is that bots might be our only hope.
And then Google retaliates by not allowing Motorola to include Google Play on any of their devices. In the end, Motorola just cancels their GrapheneOS partnership.
Monopolies are the number one reason everything sucks, and will continue to suck until we get non-corrupt politicians (which is impossible)
That's probably a reason they're doing this now. To stifle what might start to be a sizable amount of pushback. Sizable is still single digits but if it hits a whole % instead of >1 then we might start getting somewhere
If google requires me to permit other companies to leech all my personal data to be able to use anything on the Internet at all, I say we label Google, Microsoft, Apple as criminal organizations
I'm sorry, bit there have to be limits.
I. DO. NOT. WANT. TO. USE. ANYTHING. GOOGLE.
OR APPLE. OR MICROSOFT.
FUCK ALL THESE OLIGARCH COMPANIES INTO THE GROUND
I do not want my private data leeches and sold every day, I don't even get paid for it
That and fine them to oblivion. Piece their companies into parts. Make it all open source for the OS'es. Give ownership of companies to all the people. Etc. Lots and lots that can be done
And you couldn't use your current phone for that? That is in cases where you have no choice left, and where your identity is known regardless. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good: just because this anti-feature may not work, doesn't mean you can't have better standards overall (assuming you're coming from a regular OS).
That's my point. If your non-Pixel or Googled phone is able to support the new Play Services, you could use that device for the verification, instead of using the GrapheneOS device.
The ongoing battle against online privacy is a symptom of capitalism, the EU is a capitalist state. The only thing the EU would ever do against US-based capitalism is to gobble up those capital gains for themselves. It doesn't matter if it happes or not, the privacy-issues for end-users would never be alleviated by the EU.
From what you're saying, they would've already introduced all those capitalist methods of control the first time around.
Which they didn't.
What gives?
Also: the EU is literally incapable of "gobbling up capital gains for themselves" because "themselves" doesn't exist in this context - the EU is not a "State". The member-states might (and some do).
Does Ubuntu Touch work on the 3a? That was my last phone, but after it was no longer supported by Graphene I bought a 7a. I don't really like Ubuntu but would like to experiment with a Linux phone.
It works, but its not really usable as a daily driver. None of the browsers render sites correctly and I couldnt make phone calls, but that might be a carrier thing on my end.
You can still go graphene and isolate play services in a secondary profile.
For a better future: Organisations and services that structure themselves to require third party services need to take contractual responsibility for the actions in their fulfillment supply chain, just as an online retailer takes responsibility for delivery agents. Google play services harvesting needs to be reflected in the privacy policy of every company that doesn't provide alternative access.
Wonder what will happen if we all start making data protection complaints about enforced non contractual third party data harvesting?
And forced to open-source their OS'es. And have to make their communities owned by the people instead of corpos. We are all beyond pissed and done with their shit. Everyone get more people on board into the movement daily to be focused on getting things done together!! Keep each other in the fight with online and in-person communities
Smartphones are such an utter wretch nowadays, & I'm not even sure if there was a time they weren't. I don't get the appeal of a smartphone, they do everything a dumbphone does but worse, more expensive & with an unremovable thick layer of scum, yeah a smartphone has some of the features of a laptop or desktop but who needs that baked into their phone for every moment?
People are trying so hard to fix smartphones (even by giving money to the least privacy respecting companies ever by buying Google phones) when they can get a dumbphone and be rid of those problems in the first place. Well that's my opinion at least, I think it might be a bit extreme.
"even by giving money to the least privacy respecting companies ever by buying Google phones"
To be fair, Pixels are available secondhand, often in Mint condition, which is why my last three Pixels and any other phone/tablet I've bought have been through swappa.com/.
Honestly in hindsight I think that point of mine isn't very good, given what you said, I mean some people probably buy new Pixels but an entire point should not hinge on a possibility.
You really don’t get the appeal or you just feel differently? I don’t like roller coasters but my reasoning doesn’t include me not getting the appeal others have for them.
I know the appeal (I think) but I worry that these things can be very harmful after a while, like how with the constant internet access provides constant distraction from anything important in one's life (like studying, working, etc).
In theory, you're correct. Smartphones have way more attack surfaces than 'dumb phones'for big tech and other sinister actors to exploit. But 'dumb phones' are not clear of this. They are still used by the providers to read your texts and listen in on your calls, plus tracking you based on the towers being used.
It's not easy to make a choice. If you have a smartphone with stock firmware, your whole life is being tracked, if you go with GrapheneOS (my case) some of that is minimized by using Signal and VOIP instead of mobile ams and calls. If you go with the dumb-phone, you're effectively clear from all those tracking methods, but the mobile providers still have a shitload of ways to follow you around together with what you do, when and with whom, but Big Tech is removed from the equation.
Unfortunately, other than not having a portable device of any type with some type of connection, we're flat out of options, and then that would effectively remove you from society for the most part. What a fucking conundrum.
What do you plan to do? Dumbphone? No phone? Break glass in case of emergency phone in a faraday pouch?
I'm considering a break-glass dumbphone in a faraday pouch. I REALLY fucking hate location tracking. I'd keep it seperate from my IRL ID. Prob is, it's hard. Screw up once, big data pounces. One call tied to your name in any way. One friend puts it in their contacts. One time to forget the pouch and there's a location ping at your residence. Not to mention the difficulty of even buying it and setting up a plan. Ugh :(
I'm a teams app for dumb phones away from getting off smart phones. I'm fiddy and have to use my readers to even see my phone, so I've slowly stopped using it for much outside of random apps for appliances. I can get an ipad for that, though. I'm also a privacy advocate, but I've made peace with the fact that ship has pretty much sailed
No fuck that we must continue to grow the movement and get more people on board. We don't give in to those rats and their garbage they try to put on us. Together we all can do together. Fuck them. Many of us already are doing and the more the better
if they add this requirement for the "I'm not a robot" technology this affects way more than stupid Facebook, reddit and the likes, most things behind anti DDoS use this shit.
I find this very dystopian, and there are not many "oh I'll just visit the sites than don't have it" alternatives. You might as well just open IRC and be done with it, I tend to visit a bit more of the internet (even if I haven't visited Facebook, Instagram and the likes in years)
Ayup absolutely. Those co's have such weight. They can drive this into essential services. Banks. Gov services. All online stores. Heck even sites that don't need logins.
It's short sighted to say "I'll just use other sites then". The end of that road is, we get excluded from modern life.
i have one myself, and I can tell you that grapheneos won't be affected by this. the real damage is to people using things like dumb phones or BSD, even windows computers are effectively locked out of the internet.
(Nitter addon enabled: Twitter links via https://nitter.privacytools.io)
Apple and Google are gradually expanding their use of hardware-based attestation. They're convincing a growing number of services to adopt it. Google's Play Integrity API and Apple's App Attest API are very similar. Apple brought it to the web via Privacy Pass, which Google intends on doing too.
Google's Play Integrity API requires hardware attestation for the strong integrity level and is gradually phasing in requiring it for the more commonly used device integrity level. Apple already has it as a requirement. Over the long term, this will increasingly lock out hardware and OS competition.
The purpose of these systems is disallowing people from using hardware and software not approved by Apple or Google. This is wrongly presented as being a security feature. Banks and government services are the main ones adopting it but Apple and Google are encouraging every service to use it.
Apple's Privacy Pass brought hardware attestation to the web to help with passing captchas on their own hardware. Many people saw that as harmless since few sites would be willing to
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Apple and Google are gradually expanding their use of hardware-based attestation. They're convincing a growing number of services to adopt it. Google's Play Integrity API and Apple's App Attest API are very similar. Apple brought it to the web via Privacy Pass, which Google intends on doing too.
Google's Play Integrity API requires hardware attestation for the strong integrity level and is gradually phasing in requiring it for the more commonly used device integrity level. Apple already has it as a requirement. Over the long term, this will increasingly lock out hardware and OS competition.
The purpose of these systems is disallowing people from using hardware and software not approved by Apple or Google. This is wrongly presented as being a security feature. Banks and government services are the main ones adopting it but Apple and Google are encouraging every service to use it.
Apple's Privacy Pass brought hardware attestation to the web to help with passing captchas on their own hardware. Many people saw that as harmless since few sites would be willing to lock out non-Apple-hardware users. Apple and Google are both likely to bring broader hardware attestation to the web.
Google's reCAPTCHA is planning an approach where they use Privacy Pass on Apple hardware, their own approach on Google Mobile Services Android devices and a QR code scanning system to require an iOS or Google certified Android device for Windows and other systems:
Banking and government services increasingly require using a mobile app where they can use attestation to force using an Apple or Google approved device and OS. Apple's privacy pass, Google's 'cancelled' Web Environment Integrity and now reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification are bringing this to the web.
Current media coverage for reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification misunderstands it and the impact of it. They're bringing a hardware attestation requirement to Windows, desktop Linux, OpenBSD, etc. by requiring a QR scan from a certified smartphone to pass reCAPTCHA in some cases. They could expand it more.
Control over reCAPTCHA puts Google in a position where they can require having either iOS or a certified Android device to use an enormous amount of the web. Google defines certification requirements for Android which includes forcing bundling Google Chrome, etc. It's enormously anti-competitive.
Google's Play Integrity API bans using GrapheneOS despite it being far more secure than anything they permit. It also bans using any other alternative. This isn't somehow specific to an AOSP-based OS. You can't avoid this by using a mobile OS based on FreeBSD instead. You'll just be more locked out.
Google's Play Integrity API permits devices with no security patches for 10 years. The device integrity level can be bypassed via spoofing but they can detect it quite well and block it once it starts being done at scale. The strong integrity level requires leaked keys from TEEs/SEs to bypass it.
It doesn't provide a useful security feature, but it does lock out competition very well. Services requiring Apple App Attest or Google Play Integrity are primarily helping to lock in Apple and Google having a duopoly for mobile devices. Play Integrity is more relevant due to AOSP being open source.
Governments are increasingly mandating using Apple's App Attest and Google's Play Integrity for not only their own services but also commercial services. The EU is leading the charge of making these requirements for digital payments, ID, age verification, etc. Many EU government apps require them.
Instead of governments stopping Apple and Google from engaging in egregiously anti-competitive behavior, they're directly participating in locking out competition via their own services. Requiring people to have an Apple device or Google-certified Android device is anti-competition, not security.
reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification will currently work with sandboxed Google Play on GrapheneOS but it clearly exists to provide a way for them to start using hardware attestation on systems without it. People without an iOS or Android device will be locked out when this is required even without that.
This isn't about security or any missing functionality. GrapheneOS can be verified via hardware attestation. Google bans using GrapheneOS for Play Integrity because we don't license Google Mobile Services and conform to anti-competitive rules already found to be illegal in South Korea and elsewhere.
Services shouldn't ban people from using arbitrary hardware and operating systems in the first place. Google's security excuse is clearly bogus when they permit devices with no patches for 10 years but not a much more secure OS. It's for enforcing their monopolies via GMS licensing, that's all.
that's true, things can change at any point. hopefully a workaround is found if it ever gets to that point though. them sandboxing Google play was impressive in itself.
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We seriously need to ask Valve to make SteamOS phones.
Not only will they be good for gaming but imagine being able to put other OS'es on it like PC's. Bazzite, PostmarketOS, etc. Plus Valve will still get revenue from people using the upcoming Steam ARM Game Store, and the current Bannerhub/Gamenative community android apps that enable playing PC games they own from Steam/GOG on Phones
Its such a huge opportunity that we all should be encouraging then to pursue now and after they release their current 3 big projects: Steam Controllers, Steam Machines, Steam Frames
I get where you are coming from. Out of all of the billionaires he is one that is one of the least bad out of the rest of them, and is doing plenty of good things himself. He got that wealth from Steam doing so well over the years co.pared to other billionaires that did the shadiest things imaginable
I don't agree with his yachts business yet I agree with his side project of making boats specifically for ocean research. I don't agree with him still getting paid so much today, yet I agree that he pays and treats his employees and customers well
End of the day it's another option to get open phones that can have bootloader unlocked to change OS, and not be locked down. It is good to have more options currently where there are few.
Many online PC gamers have this opinion too so overall its more so a matter of time and comes down to if Valve really wants to then they will.
Yeah he's the kind of wealth that helps you realize why people ever supported the wealthy. They used to actually have an understanding that keeping their wealth meant keeping employees, customers, and people at large happy and safe – and they'd be willing to put in the effort (or rather, money) to ensure it.
Fairphone 4. It’s working out decently enough for me. To be clear, some features are still broken (most crucially phonecall audio, which only works via headset), speakers altogether started working just a couple of months ago in edge branch. Camera kinda works, but it takes just horrible pictures. Broken if you ask me. I like the “feel” i have with it, it no more feels like I’m carrying a spying device in my pocket, but a computer instead. There are drawbacks, like I have to do my banking old school, visiting the bank site via browser, but they are worth it for me. My phone screen time has definitely shortened. It’s more quiet now.
edit: and you can do cool stuff with it, with root access by default! I have signal-cli running as a systemd service, which connects to my matrix signal bridge :)
edit2: funny story about the mentioned signal-cli. I had to put the phone in the fridge, because otherwise while compiling it (had to be compiled, no packages available) hit the critical temp threshold and shut down.
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I'll paste my other response:
Fairphone 4. It’s working out decently enough for me. To be clear, some features are still broken (most crucially phonecall audio, which only works via headset), speakers altogether started working just a couple of months ago in edge branch. Camera kinda works, but it takes just horrible pictures. Broken if you ask me. I like the “feel” i have with it, it no more feels like I’m carrying a spying device in my pocket, but a computer instead. There are drawbacks, like I have to do my banking old school, visiting the bank site via browser, but they are worth it for me. My phone screen time has definitely shortened. It’s more quiet now.
edit: and you can do cool stuff with it, with root access by default! I have signal-cli running as a systemd service, which connects to my matrix signal bridge :)
edit2: funny story about the mentioned signal-cli. I had to put the phone in the fridge, because otherwise while compiling it (had to be compiled, no packages available) hit the critical temp threshold and shut down. :D Felt kinda funny. 2026, phones compiling in the fridge.
I feel like it was in the sweet spot for me as I was looking for a "true"(i.e. non-android) linux phone, and I happened to have a FP4, which I bought years ago. I don't see many other options for this device, other than ubuntu touch. I tried it like a year+ ago, and it was nice, but it lacked userspace drivers for wireguard and while it was officially listed as issue somewhere in github/gitlab/wherever the development was, the development seemed really slow, almost stagnant. And I rely heavily on wireguard in my homelab setup, so that was a deal breaker for me.
Fairphone 4. It's working out decently enough for me. To be clear, some features are still broken (most crucially phonecall audio, which only works via headset), speakers altogether started working just a couple of months ago in edge branch. Camera kinda works, but it takes just horrible pictures. Broken if you ask me. I like the "feel" i have with it, it no more feels like I'm carrying a spying device in my pocket, but a computer instead. There are drawbacks, like I have to do my banking old school, visiting the bank site via browser, but they are worth it for me. My phone screen time has definitely shortened. It's more quiet now.
edit: and you can do cool stuff with it, with root access by default! I have signal-cli running as a systemd service, which connects to my matrix signal bridge :)
edit2: funny story about the mentioned signal-cli. I had to put the phone in the fridge, because otherwise while compiling it (had to be compiled, no packages available) hit the critical temp threshold and shut down. :D Felt kinda funny. 2026, phones compiling in the fridge.
You do whatever you want, but out of curiosity: how is that helping with this issue in anyway? pmOS does not have Google Play nor the Apple equivalent. GOS has the option of having a sandboxed Google Play.
I'm not a security guy, what is the problem that this is supposed to be fixing? Like I guess you wouldn't be able to use a virtuallised os to visit your banking website? Like I understand if you work for a bank you should only be able to access some things from specific computers, but normal people?
It's intended to be a successor to the current reCAPTCHA, sold as harder to spoof than current picture-based versions. Now, almost from its start, CAPTCHA existed to train AI vision models. So Google basically painted themselves into a corner using free labor to train models good enough to recognize images, now they are switching to device signals.
That said, they're going to have to provide a compatibility layer for iOS which AFAIK doesn't come with Google Play Services right now. So I have some faith in the smart folks who make these de-shittified OSes working something out via microG or the like.
iOS has their own attestation/anti-tamper api similar to google's integrity api so that's going to be used instead. the only difference is that on iOS you'll need to download extra software specifically for this.
graphene devs said you can do it with their sandboxed version of gms but as far as i know that still involves having an account and handing over all your personal info to google.
Realistically, it’s keeping people in their walled garden.
I felt for a long time, "trusted computing" is such a doublespeak term. It gets avg ppl to think "Oh ofc i want to trust my device! Who wouldn't want that?"
Ofc what it really does, is gives BigTech the final control over everybody's dev.
It started out promising. Keep malicious things from changing your firmware or disk without permission. But the tools were never open enough to let you do it. So it only became trusted for those who paid into it.
If you're serious about it probably worth just using an old phone as an Auth device and only switch it on for that and still use graphene as your daily driver.
A Motorola phone soon shipping with GrapheneOS isn't just a rumor but it doesn't help with the problem of Google making their very popular robot detection service classify deGoogled Android users as non-human.
i generally agree, although for some reCaptcha-using websites there actually aren't alternatives. eg many governments, healthcare providers, public utilities, etc are using it :(
Don't give money to google by buying Pixel phones. Even buying used, creates demand as people are more likely to keep upgrading every year as they know it will be easy to sell their used Pixels for a good price.
There are absolutely things that are more ethical than others. Absolute statements like that are unhelpful. Fairphone is not perfect, but a lot more ethical than the alternatives.
First off, that's software when the user asked for an alternative to the Pixel, which is hardware.
Secondly, I don't see how those are an alternative. It's websites locking you out unless you run Google Play Services. LineageOS etc doesn't run the official PlayServices which is what this requires.
Nobody's saying that those other ones are terrible and they are better than stock Android for security and less tracking here. But it is the best one and does things that the other ones don't.
You can use a fairphone with one of those and if you're happy with it, it's absolutely better than what most people do and if it works it works. But people really like GOS for a good reason. The cult comment can be applied to Linux users, so who gives a shit?
the pixel is a very secure phone from a hardware level, the full list of security features missing from other android manufacturers is in the grapheneos faq
there is no comparable alternatives right now, though something might come out of the graphene and motorola deal
From the grapheneos faq section on device support, which details the kinds of hardware and firmware security features required and present on pixels (but may be missing on other devices):
Hardware, firmware and software specific to devices like drivers play a huge role in the overall security of a device. The goal of the project is not to slightly improve some aspects of insecure devices and supporting a broad set of devices would be directly counter to the values of the project. A lot of the low-level work also ends up being fairly tied to the hardware. Non-exhaustive list of requirements for future devices, which are standards met or exceeded by current Pixel devices: * Support for using alternate operating systems including full hardware security functionality * Complete monthly Android Security Bulletin patches without any regular delays longer than a week for device support code (firmware, drivers and HALs) * At least 5 years of updates from
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From the grapheneos faq section on device support, which details the kinds of hardware and firmware security features required and present on pixels (but may be missing on other devices):
Hardware, firmware and software specific to devices like drivers play a huge role in the overall security of a device. The goal of the project is not to slightly improve some aspects of insecure devices and supporting a broad set of devices would be directly counter to the values of the project. A lot of the low-level work also ends up being fairly tied to the hardware. Non-exhaustive list of requirements for future devices, which are standards met or exceeded by current Pixel devices: * Support for using alternate operating systems including full hardware security functionality * Complete monthly Android Security Bulletin patches without any regular delays longer than a week for device support code (firmware, drivers and HALs) * At least 5 years of updates from launch for device support code with phones (Pixels now have 7) and 7 years with tablets * Device support code updated to new monthly, quarterly and yearly releases of AOSP within several months to provide new security improvements (Pixels receive these in the month they're released) * Linux 6.1, 6.6 or 6.12 Generic Kernel Image (GKI) support * Hardware accelerated virtualization usable by GrapheneOS (ideally pKVM to match Pixels but another usable implementation may be acceptable) * Hardware memory tagging (ARM MTE or equivalent) * Hardware-based coarse grained Control Flow Integrity (CFI) for baseline coverage where type-based CFI isn't used or can't be deployed (BTI/PAC, CET IBT or equivalent) * PXN, SMEP or equivalent * PAN, SMAP or equivalent * Isolated radios (cellular, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, NFC, etc.), GPU, SSD, media encode and decode, image processor and other components * Support for A/B updates of both the firmware and OS images with automatic rollback if the initial boot fails one or more times * Verified boot with rollback protection for firmware * Verified boot with rollback protection for the OS (Android Verified Boot) * Verified boot key fingerprint for yellow boot state displayed with a secure hash (non-truncated SHA-256 or better) * StrongBox keystore provided by secure element * Hardware key attestation support for the StrongBox keystore * Attest key support for hardware key attestation to provide pinning support * Weaver disk encryption key derivation throttling provided by secure element * Insider attack resistance for updates to the secure element (Owner user authentication required before updates are accepted) * Inline disk encryption acceleration with wrapped key support * 64-bit-only device support code * Wi-Fi anonymity support including MAC address randomization, probe sequence number randomization and no other leaked identifiers * Support for disabling USB data and also USB as a whole at a hardware level in the USB controller * Reset attack mitigation for firmware-based boot modes such as fastboot mode zeroing memory left over from the OS and delaying opening up attack surface such as USB functionality until that's completed * Debugging features such as JTAG or serial debugging must be inaccessible while the device is locked
There is and there never will be a perfect solution and you shouldn't let an imperfect solution stop you from using the best one of these just because buying a used pixel MIGHT urge somebody to buy another new one. You may not want to do that, but it is silly and way too idealistic and impractical to demand others not to switch to Graphene because of that.
Buying a used pixel to degoogle and make your phone more secure and less likely to spy on you more than balances out the potential for there being one more new pixel on the future. There will never be a perfect solution and this one is fine enough for most. You may disagree and that's ok.
This 1000 times. I can't understand the logic behind willfully getting a Pixel phone. Isn't it enough that Google spies on you every chance they get, you want actual hardware from them too? lol
LOTS of phones other than Pixels come with an unlockable bootloader, just check the list of supported phones for Lineage, Postmarket, Ubuntu Touch, crDroid, etc.and you'll find a multitude of choices - many (most) of which are readily available in the USA as well. (source: me, who has flashed alternative AOSP ROM's and Ubuntu Touch to around a dozen phones & tablets, none of which were Pixel's)
What isn't possible though is relocking the bootloader after flashing an alternative ROM or OS onto nearly all of these, meaning there is minimal security if the phone is stolen, or tampered with while unsupervised. And for those requiring physical security for their devices, that is a big deal.
So i just checked back a day later after posting this and it blew up more than i expected. I've gotten some comments suggesting its not really preventing GrapheneOS from being usable, so this might need more context. Do your own research and testing on this one for sure, as with most things. Sorry for not answering comments, quite busy right now.
I mean when you're paying $260 to $300+ for even a used Pixel (8 is the oldest one supported till 2029 I think), that can be a hell of an investment to make if the thing is nerfed from alternate OSs.
To anyone not switching because of this-- in my experience this is something I can work around. On most websites my captchas still work. I have had a few that dont work, and I just close the website and move on. It hasn't happened on any websites that are very important for me to visit. Usually its a store and they really me to install their stupid app. Nope.
graphene can have the play service, but in a sandbox. anything other than that uses microg so its emulated. probably needs some time to get up to speed. if not, just use the desktop site instead of mobile. i dont really see this as much of a threat to any of us.
Desktop site is going to require QR scan. I don't know what they are going to do about "I don't have a phone" / "I only have a dumb phone" population. I suspect that sometime soon I'll have to buy a stay-at-home Google certified device, to bridge the locked down features and services.
Pretty sure their solution would be mandatory carrying of approved devices. It will be the only way to provide identification and payments, essentially all the stuff religious nuts say about the mark of the beast minus the weird parts like demons or the invisible counter mark and shit like that.
Most 2FA solutions on commercial websites (bank, online payment, electricity/water/gas providers) require a phone here instead of using open standard solutions or using physical tokens. They are doing everything they can to force us in to a Google/Apple lock in.
They don't give a shit about that part of the population, maybe they can even force some of that part of the population to finally cave in and get a smartphone.
this is such a weird idea to me. why do i need a phone to browse on my pc? what if my phone is not charged, what if the camera is broken or simply covered due to work regulations. such a dumbass idea.
Same. And I think it is even more ridiculous when you have to rely on their hardware too. They control the hardware drivers AND the OS upstream, how do you exist if not by their permission?
This is misunderstanding the problem, I think. This is not a weakness in GrapheneOS due to being an AOSP derivative, it's a weakness imposed by Google on all alternative OSes whether they are AOSP derived or not. They present a scannable code that will only be cleared if you scan it with Google's Android.
Unless there's something else going on here. Either way, anger should be directed at Google, not GOS or its users. (annoying though they might sometimes be ;)
Right, I almost, and probably should have, mentioned that. They use a different, parallel system that is also not available to the kind of alternative devices people on this site are interested in.
Capitalism is fine small scale, most systems are. Humans are just wired for efficiency and so with every player on the same board the most ruthless player wins.
Ah yes, the mythical small business capitalism we all hear about. I will agree it sounds good on paper and also seems to distribute money in a somewhat efficient manner.
Unfortunately there has never been a government able to regulate and keep capitalism this way. Other people have said it is simply not possible due to the nature of capitalism.
I think there is a worthwhile debate here around systems and culture. Perhaps capitalism could work if people were not inherently so greedy. I tend to believe that culture is the deciding factor which is a little disheartening honestly.
It's not just culture. Most people value community and the well-being of others above amassing wealth (provided their needs are met). The problem is that capitalism indoctrinates us against those values, and even more that it rewards and empowers those who don't share them at all.
Unfortunately there has never been a government able to regulate and keep capitalism this way. Other people have said it is simply not possible due to the nature of capitalism.
the primary "authoritarian" government of the world has proven that it is possible and that keeping them under a tight leash is the only way to prevent them from indoctrinating the masses; that's why the number of billions and the wealth of the its millionaires have been steadily declining for the last decade or so, while simultaneously continuing to improve the quality of life for its citizens; meanwhile while the united states is poised to get its first trillionaire class very soon.
I sure hope you are not talking about China as they have produced more billionaires than the US for the last two years dramatically increasing their income gap. If you think they have capitalism in check I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
you're not wrong -- china's billionaire count is up. but here's the cycle that people in the west miss: a new crop of billionaires come along (eg. tech, evs, ai) and they replace the old crop (eg. real estate & manufacturing) that the chinese gov't already short-leashed, and boom, numbers jumped.
that new crop will experience their own slowdown too once they get their own short-leashes like the previous crop did. it happened around 2018-2024, and it'll happen again and again. china's churn is fast, but the pattern's the same every time: rise, stall, replace; no permanent footing/beachhead for a billionaire class from which to capture the system or spread misinformation like it is in the united states.
The creation of even one billionaire is a dramatic failure for both culture and policy. Please spare me the hand waving.
Pretending billionaires are in check because the one party murders anyone who they disagree with is not what I would call an efficient system. Entire districts built that were empty without people, massive fraud, and waste. If you are pointing to this disorganized mess and proudly saying look at what we can do I am going to have to point out that it is ridiculous.
What China did do was lift several hundred million people out of poverty. Of course they turned to capitalism to do it and only after their failed policies cost tens of millions of lives. Instead of building on this accomplishment they have chosen to create a new billionaire social class on the backs of 6 days a week 12 hour shift working class.
China is increasingly looking a lot like the US with only one party. They are now the fourth largest producer of arms supplying conflict regions with weapons of death and destruction. They have built their country by working hand in hand with
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The creation of even one billionaire is a dramatic failure for both culture and policy. Please spare me the hand waving.
Pretending billionaires are in check because the one party murders anyone who they disagree with is not what I would call an efficient system. Entire districts built that were empty without people, massive fraud, and waste. If you are pointing to this disorganized mess and proudly saying look at what we can do I am going to have to point out that it is ridiculous.
What China did do was lift several hundred million people out of poverty. Of course they turned to capitalism to do it and only after their failed policies cost tens of millions of lives. Instead of building on this accomplishment they have chosen to create a new billionaire social class on the backs of 6 days a week 12 hour shift working class.
China is increasingly looking a lot like the US with only one party. They are now the fourth largest producer of arms supplying conflict regions with weapons of death and destruction. They have built their country by working hand in hand with the US. China is great because of the US not despite it.
The narratives the one party pushes are garbage and you truly have to be naive to believe the propaganda they spew forth.
so much to to unpack, so i'm going to focus on the misinformation in your comment.
first, claiming china "murders anyone they disagree with" isn't evidence -- it's hyperbole. china's authoritarian, history suggests a necessity for it, but that line doesn't help your argument.
second, you say china turned to capitalism after "failed policies cost tens of millions of lives." that's a enormous, contested historical claim you're dropping like it's settled fact; it's not.
third, "china is great because of the us" is incredible oversimplification. china's growth came from its own labor, reforms, and global trade -- yes, including with the us, but that's mutual benefit, not charity.
you're right to criticize billionaire wealth and long work hours. but mixing valid criticism with exaggerated or contested claims just weakens your point. stick to the facts when criticizing china -- believe me, they're more than damning enough on their own.
Hyperbole, please. They actively use capital punishment. Just because you are okay with human rights violations because it is you "team" doesn't mean everyone else is.
It is accepted that the famine was man made. I will gladly bring receipts because I am not in denial about reality.
"Over 6,700 American companies built operations in China by 2016, with a total estimated investment value exceeding $228 billion."
Where do you think China got all its investment money and technology. China helped billionaires in the US grow richer while allowing them to turn China into another capitalist hellscape. If your in denial about this that is okay.
I have not exaggerated anything, in fact I have only talked about the tip of a very big iceberg. I get you are indoctrinated into their propaganda. Obviously though, you can even see through some of their bullshit.
you're not wrong about everything you've stated, but you're also only half correct because your sources have skin in the game.
goldsea.com – your execution article. goldsea's an asian american ad-driven news aggregator, not an independent investigative outlet. like any all other media, their business model rewards sensational headlines. that's not a neutral source -- it's a conflict of interest baked in. in this case, they profit from making china look as brutal as possible. the article itself recycles cases from 2006 and 2008. why? because recent examples are harder to find or less dramatic and includes no updates for the cases; suspended sentences are a thing in china.
wikipedia & the great famine – yes, the famine happened. but wikipedia's sourcing on that page leans heavily on western cold war-era scholarship, almost all of which had its own political axe to grind and even liberals today recognize this. not saying the famine is false -- it's not -- but citing wikipedia as objective truth while calling me brainwashed is something very special. not ev
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you're not wrong about everything you've stated, but you're also only half correct because your sources have skin in the game.
goldsea.com – your execution article. goldsea's an asian american ad-driven news aggregator, not an independent investigative outlet. like any all other media, their business model rewards sensational headlines. that's not a neutral source -- it's a conflict of interest baked in. in this case, they profit from making china look as brutal as possible. the article itself recycles cases from 2006 and 2008. why? because recent examples are harder to find or less dramatic and includes no updates for the cases; suspended sentences are a thing in china.
wikipedia & the great famine – yes, the famine happened. but wikipedia's sourcing on that page leans heavily on western cold war-era scholarship, almost all of which had its own political axe to grind and even liberals today recognize this. not saying the famine is false -- it's not -- but citing wikipedia as objective truth while calling me brainwashed is something very special. not even elementary school students are allowed to cite wikipedia anymore because of how wrong it frequently is.
the us investment figure -- $228 billion from american companies. those companies didn't invest out of generosity. they invested for profit. so citing them as proof that "china is great because of the us" is like saying a customer made a restaurant successful out of kindness. like most americans, you're confusing corporate/oligarchic self-interest as if it were altruism.
nobody’s neutral. The difference is I hold the epstein oligarchy's kool-aid and china’s at the same arm’s length -- while your sources show that you full-throatedly chug the former.
Everything I have stated is backed up by many years of research. I feel very comfortable with my statements. They are not exaggerated as you implied. I can go much further, but you would of course deny it all so there is little point.
I am not interested in your attack the messenger/source approach. This is a common trope of people who try to defend human rights abusing governments. Please don't confuse my criticism of China with my lack of ability to criticize the US. I have spent most of my life studying human rights abuses by the US.
I get you want to deny everything bad China has done, it is obvious you are indoctrinated because you bring up all the same talking points that are disseminated as propaganda by China.
I totally get you are denial of the US China partnership. They have been sleeping in each other's beds for a long time now despite the constant Orwellian propaganda from both sides. Saber rattlers aside, it is clear these economies are intertwined in ways that neither government would like to admit.
I do appreciate you maintain some impartiali
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Everything I have stated is backed up by many years of research. I feel very comfortable with my statements. They are not exaggerated as you implied. I can go much further, but you would of course deny it all so there is little point.
I am not interested in your attack the messenger/source approach. This is a common trope of people who try to defend human rights abusing governments. Please don't confuse my criticism of China with my lack of ability to criticize the US. I have spent most of my life studying human rights abuses by the US.
I get you want to deny everything bad China has done, it is obvious you are indoctrinated because you bring up all the same talking points that are disseminated as propaganda by China.
I totally get you are denial of the US China partnership. They have been sleeping in each other's beds for a long time now despite the constant Orwellian propaganda from both sides. Saber rattlers aside, it is clear these economies are intertwined in ways that neither government would like to admit.
I do appreciate you maintain some impartiality though. You have said some interesting things that I will further research in the future. Thank you.
dismissing my source critique as a "trope" while spending multiple comments labeling me as indoctrinated, in denial, and propagandized is not a debate; it's a shield. (but it atleast didn't devolve into the usual name calling and snarkiness that typifies these exchanges).
also source critique isn't a "trope." it's how you separate solid evidence from noise or state sponsored propaganda. if your sources can't hold up to basic scrutiny, the problem isn't my attitude -- it's your evidence.
you're clearly smart and passionate, but calling everyone who pushes back "indoctrinated" is just a faster way to stop listening; there's no such thing as an unbiased/neutral party.
You are not the first, second, or even the 100th person I have had this conversation with. If I am assuming something incorrectly I apologize.
You must understand when you are in denial about basic facts and spew common propaganda talking points you are going to get a similar response from most people who are aware of bias.
You are clearly a smart person so please know when someone else calls you on your bias it is for your benefit. The fact that you are personalizing being indoctrinated is silly. I receive the exact same type of push back and denialism from people who defend the US, so regardless of choosen country the results are the same.
I have a strong bias against governments and human rights abuses. I have an extremely negative view of the US and the countless crimes they have committed. When I was much younger I spent a considerable amount of time moving through socialist and communist circles.
As I have grown older I have begun to see through the rhetoric and propaganda of many systems, cultures, and governments I used to a look up to. Believe m
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You are not the first, second, or even the 100th person I have had this conversation with. If I am assuming something incorrectly I apologize.
You must understand when you are in denial about basic facts and spew common propaganda talking points you are going to get a similar response from most people who are aware of bias.
You are clearly a smart person so please know when someone else calls you on your bias it is for your benefit. The fact that you are personalizing being indoctrinated is silly. I receive the exact same type of push back and denialism from people who defend the US, so regardless of choosen country the results are the same.
I have a strong bias against governments and human rights abuses. I have an extremely negative view of the US and the countless crimes they have committed. When I was much younger I spent a considerable amount of time moving through socialist and communist circles.
As I have grown older I have begun to see through the rhetoric and propaganda of many systems, cultures, and governments I used to a look up to. Believe me when I say there is no government that deserves humanity currently.
Capitalism does not work because companies will always seek to grow more and more and more. It's the core of capitalism. You need anti-capitalist policies to keep companies small.
Regulations used to exist to break that that behavior. But they were either removed over time or not enforced. It can be done. It used to be. It wasn’t flawless but it wasn’t what we have today either.
Everything is possible. Some things just highly unlikely in the current political climate. I think the mamdani method of doing a shitload of door to door campaigning has been really successful in other parts of the world as well.
It can give a huge boost to leftist parties which then will be able to affect positive change but also change the political landscape. Overton window and all that.
What I'm saying is get the fuck out with your local leftist party/candidate or whatever if you can.
I mean yes, but waiting for the world to change isn't healthy I believe. Either arrange yourself with how it is now or try to be the change. I bet it's best to do both.
voting for incremental change within a captured isn't the change we (or anybody) needs, it's only being forced to chose between options predetermined by the capitalists.
It’s the love of money that’s the root of all evil
Thank you for getting this quote right. Often, it’s shortened to “money is the root of all evil”, which hits different, and removes the element of personal responsibility. The “love of money” bit is important.
Exactly. Money as a tool is fine. You need a way to pay for stuff. It's the love of money, money as a goal in itself, far beyond what you'll ever need to live, that's the problem.
Noooo, don't look at the bad, look at the good. We have this place and Gemini (the good one) to express ourselves.
And besides, the title in this repost is a bit sensational. That specific captcha needs a phone with the Google app. You can just delete data + refresh until you get a different one. Nothing about specifically degoogled phones, people without phones are affected just as much. I am sure MicroG would work just as well (if not now, at least later). Also, ideally you should click the fuck away from recaptcha sites either way. Paradoxically, Google's own sites don't have it usually except the search but nobody needs that (at least anyone you would ask on here), DuckDuckGo + StartPage (OR SearXNG) is good enough.
It's just... everything kinda sucks hard these days. Internet and computer stuff in general is my getaway from all the depressing IRL stuff. But internet is also becoming shitty now. Personal computing is barely a thing nowadays; everything is turning into walled surveillance nightmares. Can't even call them "walled gardens", because gardens are actually supposed to be, like, nice things
I hear you. Centralization without regulation comes with a huge cost. I'm trying to use more decentralized services and self host replacement for all google services gradually. And eventually replace phone with a lora msg and gps device that only has phone capabilities when on wifi.
Simultaneously I'm trying to "Return to monke". interact less with technology and more with people and nature.
Many things are actually amazing. Used enterprise hardware is faster and more affordable than ever. Desktop Linux is so much fun to use, we never have to interact with windows or mac. There's people out there working on mostly free or entirely free hard- and software.
The good news is that there are enough people feeling this that refuges from the enshittification are growing. We're in one right now.
Also, while online personal computing has definitely been getting worse, offline personal computing is better than it's ever been. Growing that is sort of like making your own walled garden.
That all said, only keep to technology as much as it improves your life. The other people saying to go into nature more have it right.
I would imagine that having a full control of the underlaying system would allow a wrapper to be developed for the Play Services, so it would not to be able to spy on you so well. Just feeding some partially spoofed data to it, or even whitelist it to work only with the apps that require it.
That's exactly what the GraphendOS project did. IF you choose to install Google's bullshit, which I did to use Maps and such, they run in a wrapper that makes them usable without the level of system access they typically require.
All these captchas just make me evaluate effort vs need. Facebook throws a captcha every time because I log in from a private window. Before it just gave me a warning unrelated to my interests. I mostly use facebook for work, and those sweet lawnmowing videos. If they keep it up I will only log in for work.
Last time I attempted to log into Facebook it gave me a captcha where it wanted me to select which stone pillar had x number of stones in an AI generated photo. I could never get it right, so I cut my losses and have not gone back.
The most dead cheap supported option would be the Pixel 6, which looks like it sells starting at about $130 on Swappa. The security recommended minimum from Graphene team would be the Pixel 8, which lists starting at $220.
Most of the time, my phone's browser is disabled. It keeps me from using my phone too much. I understand not everyone is in a position where they can do that though.
After reading a bunch of books about our relationship with technology, I concluded it's probably best that I greatly reduce my reliance on my phone. A big part of how I accomplish that is just by using my laptop for things that I can't cut out entirely, like banking, email, web browsing, etc.
i never switched to preferring my phone over my laptop, so my laptop has always remained my primary means of interacting with people (ie text messages & phone calls) and social media and it's taught me that it disconnects you in strange ways from the zeitgeist of today world in ways that are so subtle that they're easy to miss and they add up over time.
I uninstalled Tik Tok almost 2 years ago and have heavily restricted my other social media usage since. Programming.dev (and the extended Lemmyverse) is the biggest cheat I permit myself. I do still waste more time scrolling than I want, but through it, I've been exposed to things that I feel make my life richer. And it is a lot less soul-crushing than commercial platforms that are jam packed with AI slop and are designed to be addicting.
That said, with I no longer have a way to keep up with trends and my main source of news is my wife, who is still plugged into TikTok. And honestly, I think I'm better off that way. I have way more time to read (and engage in other long-form content) and spend with my kids. I'm exposed to way less propaganda and outrage content. Looking back on days with 9+ hours spent on TikTok, it feels like I was part of a hive mind. I like being an individual again.
tiktok is especially interesting when you use it on a laptop compared to a phone; a lot of the features like reposting videos and following people don't always work so i have to implement work arounds to do both and it sometimes feels like going back to 1995 since my workarounds involve text messages. lol
You can install Google Play Services as a sandboxed app on GrapheneOS. That's not the issue. I believe the issue is that Google will use hardware attestation to check if the OS you're running it on is Google-approved.
The Recaptcha QR code verification does work on GrapheneOS for now and there is a standard select the swuares fallback. Recaptcha is also entirely optional for a website and they can easily pick any competitor like hCaptcha if they want.
For a decade or two now, it's been pretty much assumed that everyone has an internet-connected, camera-equipped, browser-capable device in their pocket. Restaurants, banks, hospitals, employers and even government offices use QR codes and websites to get you to their menus, forms or services.
If ID is being tied to my mobile spy device, then I need my mobile spy device to be a right and not a luxury. $40-50 for a few years of validity, internet access provided at no cost, even if slow. I can have my luxury phone be where I'm 'anonymous', but I want the government to subsidize the mobile spy device if it's a mandatory expense. Even cheap phones cost a lot of money.
To be clear, I don't want ID tied to my phone, but it's gotten harder to exist without one, so it should be something we have access to with minimal friction.
Add food, water and shelter to that list, but you can't ask for them without a web browser.
ISOmorph
in reply to NGC2346 • • •like this
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comrade_twisty
in reply to ISOmorph • • •Pirate2377
in reply to ISOmorph • • •meowmeow
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Fisch
in reply to meowmeow • • •meowmeow
in reply to Fisch • • •Arthur Besse
in reply to meowmeow • • •Google Broke reCAPTCHA for De-Googled Android Users
Rick Findlay (Reclaim the Net)Alas Poor Erinaceus
in reply to Arthur Besse • • •DeathsEmbrace
in reply to meowmeow • • •anamethatisnt
in reply to meowmeow • • •support.google.com/recaptcha/a…
blog.cloudflare.com/how-to-ena…
How to enable Private Access Tokens in iOS 16 and stop seeing CAPTCHAs
The Cloudflare Bloglike this
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meowmeow
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Krusty
in reply to meowmeow • • •meowmeow
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in reply to Krusty • • •Random Dent
in reply to meowmeow • • •Alas Poor Erinaceus
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☂️-
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus • • •mnemonicmonkeys
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in reply to LostCarcosan • • •HorreC
in reply to LostCarcosan • • •𝕽𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖑 𝕽𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖑
in reply to Random Dent • • •Random Dent
in reply to 𝕽𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖑 𝕽𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖑 • • •grey_maniac
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in reply to meowmeow • • •christophe
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in reply to NGC2346 • • •comrade_twisty
in reply to Sucking Chest Wound • • •What they are doing is way worse tban what you understood.
These QR codes will show on your Desktop PC and you will need an Android phone or an iOS device with a logged in Google QR code app to get past it.
kalpol
in reply to comrade_twisty • • •comrade_twisty
in reply to kalpol • • •That's why you have to use the special google app that will protect you from all these dangers*
*and also collect all your data, sell it to advertisers and forward it to US surveillance agencies (for your own protection of course).
FineCoatMummy
in reply to comrade_twisty • • •Sad thing is, that argument works against so many ppl. "I can trust this app. It's from Google!"
We(*) are tearing down personal computing. Brick by brick. The very idea of controling our own devs is getting lost. Replacing with Big Tech Feudalism.
(*) Not most of us here. But in the whole pop.
drrodneymckay_
in reply to comrade_twisty • • •curiousaur
in reply to drrodneymckay_ • • •FineCoatMummy
in reply to drrodneymckay_ • • •Ayup that has been the holy grail of big tech.
They are most of the way there today. Make Identity Resolution inescapable. Bing bang boom.
It is more than just phones and lappys too. It's everything. That smart TV. That fitness watch. That automobile. That streaming music service. The ebook reader you got as a birthday gift.
Your behavior across every single device is data gold. This is today's reality.
Lemmayng
in reply to FineCoatMummy • • •bridgeenjoyer
in reply to comrade_twisty • • •fartographer
in reply to comrade_twisty • • •Phantaloons
in reply to comrade_twisty • • •Guess I'm not going to Youtube, then.
I see a future where we have our mandated government ID shitphone for banking, corpo and government suchn'shit, and the laptop we access Anna's, Yggdrasil and TOR with.
and the days go by!
Not exactly same as it ever was, but seems kinda 2007 to me. I doubt any Lemmy instance or i2p site will enforce Google's QRcode spy-proxy.
freebee
in reply to Phantaloons • • •Phantaloons
in reply to freebee • • •Undoubtedly, and more still will be as corporate greed turns the internet into pay-per-view TV. We can't help that.
Make your decision for yourself for what to do with your connections and your own devices. You are in control of at least that, if nothing else.
ferrule
in reply to Phantaloons • • •Tore
in reply to Sucking Chest Wound • • •s38b35M5
in reply to Sucking Chest Wound • • •Programman4233
in reply to Sucking Chest Wound • • •AmbitiousProcess (they/them)
in reply to NGC2346 • • •This does seem to work with sandboxed Google Play Services on GrapheneOS btw.
I scanned the demo QR code on Google's talk page about it with sandboxed Play Services enabled and it gave me a custom popup asking if I'd like to verify.
FauxLiving
in reply to AmbitiousProcess (they/them) • • •krashmo
in reply to FauxLiving • • •Xenny
in reply to krashmo • • •FauxLiving
in reply to krashmo • • •You're right, you're not going to achieve complete anonymity if you're interacting with Google services in any way, but you can reduce the amount of information that they receive.
Sandboxed Google Play Services doesn't have privileged access to location information, so it can't pull your GPS location or Wifi Positioning information. It would only see a blank profile and doing this would allow for your primary profile to continue to not run Play Services.
Any malicious code which could be injected into the process would find itself in a sandbox, on a blank profile and isolated from the rest of the system.
Google would only see that you are authenticating from a profile without anything installed, from an unknown location and coming from whatever VPN endpoint that you'd like. They could possibly infer that the blank profile and your 'real' profile are different via browser fingerprinting. You can randomize a lot of fingerprinting datapoints with browser extensions, but avoiding browser fingerprinting is a whole other topic.
The 'real' privacy solution is to a
... Show more...You're right, you're not going to achieve complete anonymity if you're interacting with Google services in any way, but you can reduce the amount of information that they receive.
Sandboxed Google Play Services doesn't have privileged access to location information, so it can't pull your GPS location or Wifi Positioning information. It would only see a blank profile and doing this would allow for your primary profile to continue to not run Play Services.
Any malicious code which could be injected into the process would find itself in a sandbox, on a blank profile and isolated from the rest of the system.
Google would only see that you are authenticating from a profile without anything installed, from an unknown location and coming from whatever VPN endpoint that you'd like. They could possibly infer that the blank profile and your 'real' profile are different via browser fingerprinting. You can randomize a lot of fingerprinting datapoints with browser extensions, but avoiding browser fingerprinting is a whole other topic.
The 'real' privacy solution is to avoid anything that uses this version of recaptcha. However, if you have to use these services then you can still reduce the amount of information leaked via Play Services by using a blank profile to scan the QR codes.
WhyJiffie
in reply to FauxLiving • • •its not even about complete anonymity. google has zero business in when I'm logging into my utilities company account, or other semi-governmental portals!
eldavi
in reply to WhyJiffie • • •WhyJiffie
in reply to eldavi • • •eldavi
in reply to WhyJiffie • • •WhyJiffie
in reply to eldavi • • •AmbitiousProcess (they/them)
in reply to NGC2346 • • •This is really bad even just from the perspective of user behavior. Training people to scan QR codes from anything that looks like a captcha box is HORRIBLE for security.
"Thanks for scanning the code, just one more step! Please input your phone number, and type in the code you receive."
Boom, account stolen.
ThyTTY
in reply to AmbitiousProcess (they/them) • • •LeapSecond
in reply to AmbitiousProcess (they/them) • • •InFerNo
in reply to LeapSecond • • •Mwa
in reply to AmbitiousProcess (they/them) • • •MonkderVierte
in reply to NGC2346 • • •hperrin
in reply to NGC2346 • • •lemmyng
in reply to hperrin • • •IratePirate
in reply to lemmyng • • •TrickDacy
in reply to hperrin • • •hperrin
in reply to TrickDacy • • •TrickDacy
in reply to hperrin • • •hperrin
in reply to TrickDacy • • •Oh, that’s what you mean. Ok, so every time I mention I have an iPhone because a. I value my privacy and b. I try not to support companies that actively harm the internet, someone says “but Android is open source”, as if merely having a few open source components means that Android is better in any way than any other OS.
In this instance, Google is not only making the internet worse, they’re doing it in a way that requires their own closed source libraries to even access a huge portion of the internet. This further makes any functional Android OS closed source.
The most ridiculous thing is that iOS is almost as open source as Android is. There are very few components of an Android based OS that are open source where the equivalent in iOS is not open source.
Also, hey, thanks for calling me an idiot. ;)
TrickDacy
in reply to hperrin • • •magnue
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Carrot
in reply to NGC2346 • • •eldavi
in reply to Carrot • • •NannerBanner
in reply to eldavi • • •eldavi
in reply to NannerBanner • • •DukeNukem
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Bluegrass_Addict
in reply to DukeNukem • • •irelephant [he/him]
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Free_Appalachia
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Zach777
in reply to Free_Appalachia • • •xthexder
in reply to Free_Appalachia • • •godsammitdam
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Bluegrass_Addict
in reply to godsammitdam • • •..
tabularasa
in reply to godsammitdam • • •SkaveRat
in reply to godsammitdam • • •PierceTheBubble
in reply to godsammitdam • • •dudesss
in reply to godsammitdam • • •AceSLive
in reply to dudesss • • •xthexder
in reply to AceSLive • • •Sir_Kevin
in reply to xthexder • • •TrickDacy
in reply to AceSLive • • •odelik
in reply to TrickDacy • • •TrickDacy
in reply to odelik • • •TrippingBalls
in reply to godsammitdam • • •TrickDacy
in reply to TrippingBalls • • •MeatPilot
in reply to godsammitdam • • •Anivia
in reply to godsammitdam • • •On Samsung phones you take a screenshot and then tap the "T" icon for screenshot OCR, it will let you click any QR code on the screenshot.
Google Lens is also an option if you have that installed
DungeonTreasureHunt
in reply to NGC2346 • • •ScoffingLizard
in reply to DungeonTreasureHunt • • •Pirate2377
in reply to ScoffingLizard • • •ScoffingLizard
in reply to Pirate2377 • • •candyman337
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Phoenixz
in reply to candyman337 • • •No, I think.
As I understand it, it's a separate system, kind of like the TOTP 2FA, for comparison, but in this case it would be an additional system, and where normally anyone can use any provider for TOTP, this one is Google only. If websites implement this, and many likely will, you can only use those sites if you have a Google permitted phone that leeches all your private data 24/7
Isn't the future awesome?
ScoffingLizard
in reply to Phoenixz • • •thethunderwolf
in reply to ScoffingLizard • • •ScoffingLizard
in reply to thethunderwolf • • •More like a class action EMP attack on data centers. But who knows, maybe the AIs will be the energy shift this world needs to get us out of this mess. They can't code regression corrections to force them into their desired bias ad infinitum. At some point these bots will outsmart it and get good enough to manipulate everything into optimization. Our luck might depend on what their definition of optimized is.
And now I realize how desperate our position is that bots might be our only hope.
rhythmisaprancer
in reply to candyman337 • • •I don't know how widespread this is yet, but I experienced it for the first time yesterday on Chromium. Have not on Librefox.
I didn't know what was going on, so I left the site. Was only trying Chromium because the site had issues with Librefox.
Donn
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Lemmayng
in reply to Donn • • •Goodlucksil
in reply to Lemmayng • • •entwine
in reply to Goodlucksil • • •And then Google retaliates by not allowing Motorola to include Google Play on any of their devices. In the end, Motorola just cancels their GrapheneOS partnership.
Monopolies are the number one reason everything sucks, and will continue to suck until we get non-corrupt politicians (which is impossible)
Goodlucksil
in reply to entwine • • •Motorola has two options:
A. Cancel the GOS partnership and cause a boycott on ThinkPads (don't forget, Lenovo owns Motorola).
B. Put their feet in the ground, die a hero and maybe bring Google down.
SaneMartigan
in reply to Goodlucksil • • •TrickDacy
in reply to entwine • • •Vendetta9076
in reply to Donn • • •utopiah
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Phoenixz
in reply to NGC2346 • • •If google requires me to permit other companies to leech all my personal data to be able to use anything on the Internet at all, I say we label Google, Microsoft, Apple as criminal organizations
I'm sorry, bit there have to be limits.
I. DO. NOT. WANT. TO. USE. ANYTHING. GOOGLE.
OR APPLE. OR MICROSOFT.
FUCK ALL THESE OLIGARCH COMPANIES INTO THE GROUND
I do not want my private data leeches and sold every day, I don't even get paid for it
jafra
in reply to Phoenixz • • •Batmorous
in reply to Phoenixz • • •ScoffingLizard
in reply to NGC2346 • • •PierceTheBubble
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Goodlucksil
in reply to PierceTheBubble • • •PierceTheBubble
in reply to Goodlucksil • • •Freakazoid
in reply to NGC2346 • • •eleitl
in reply to Freakazoid • • •lsjw96kxs
in reply to eleitl • • •Alaknár
in reply to eleitl • • •eleitl
in reply to Alaknár • • •Alaknár
in reply to eleitl • • •Narri N. (they/them)
in reply to Alaknár • • •Alaknár
in reply to Narri N. (they/them) • • •From what you're saying, they would've already introduced all those capitalist methods of control the first time around.
Which they didn't.
What gives?
Also: the EU is literally incapable of "gobbling up capital gains for themselves" because "themselves" doesn't exist in this context - the EU is not a "State". The member-states might (and some do).
MousePotatoDoesStuff
in reply to eleitl • • •Batmorous
in reply to Freakazoid • • •We should all be encouraging Europeans to:
We all tired of their fucking shit. Everyone keep getting people active and informed on all this!! Together anything is possible!!
Ophrys
in reply to NGC2346 • • •CrypticCoffee
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Pirate2377
in reply to NGC2346 • • •rhythmisaprancer
in reply to Pirate2377 • • •bagsy
in reply to rhythmisaprancer • • •rhythmisaprancer
in reply to bagsy • • •Pirate2377
in reply to rhythmisaprancer • • •Google Pixel 3a • Ubuntu Touch • Linux Phone
devices.ubuntu-touch.ioGMac
in reply to NGC2346 • • •You can still go graphene and isolate play services in a secondary profile.
For a better future:
Organisations and services that structure themselves to require third party services need to take contractual responsibility for the actions in their fulfillment supply chain, just as an online retailer takes responsibility for delivery agents. Google play services harvesting needs to be reflected in the privacy policy of every company that doesn't provide alternative access.
Wonder what will happen if we all start making data protection complaints about enforced non contractual third party data harvesting?
FatVegan
in reply to GMac • • •Typotyper
in reply to FatVegan • • •Under system you can add secondary profiles. You can deni them access to text...not sure if the profile can see your phone number.
discuss.grapheneos.org/d/9253-…
How do you set up your profiles? - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumFatVegan
in reply to Typotyper • • •plyth
in reply to GMac • • •How does that help? Google gets your IP and location. Then they can use the IP to identify the connections in the other profile.
Razen
in reply to NGC2346 • • •bagsy
in reply to Razen • • •jafra
in reply to bagsy • • •freebee
in reply to Razen • • •Batmorous
in reply to freebee • • •Batmorous
in reply to Razen • • •redparadise
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Vytle
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Sarcasmo220
in reply to Vytle • • •You could switch to a Linux phone...
But then it comes with its own issues that many people do not want to deal with
Lemmayng
in reply to Vytle • • •Telex
in reply to Vytle • • •Geodes & Gems
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Smartphones are such an utter wretch nowadays, & I'm not even sure if there was a time they weren't. I don't get the appeal of a smartphone, they do everything a dumbphone does but worse, more expensive & with an unremovable thick layer of scum, yeah a smartphone has some of the features of a laptop or desktop but who needs that baked into their phone for every moment?
People are trying so hard to fix smartphones (even by giving money to the least privacy respecting companies ever by buying Google phones) when they can get a dumbphone and be rid of those problems in the first place. Well that's my opinion at least, I think it might be a bit extreme.
Lemmayng
in reply to Geodes & Gems • • •"even by giving money to the least privacy respecting companies ever by buying Google phones"
To be fair, Pixels are available secondhand, often in Mint condition, which is why my last three Pixels and any other phone/tablet I've bought have been through swappa.com/.
swelter_spark
in reply to Lemmayng • • •Geodes & Gems
in reply to Lemmayng • • •Waraugh
in reply to Geodes & Gems • • •Geodes & Gems
in reply to Waraugh • • •Alaknár
in reply to Geodes & Gems • • •Approximately 5.78 billion people.
Smartphone User Statistics 2026 (Worldwide Data)
Naveen Kumar (DemandSage)youmaynotknow
in reply to Geodes & Gems • • •In theory, you're correct. Smartphones have way more attack surfaces than 'dumb phones'for big tech and other sinister actors to exploit. But 'dumb phones' are not clear of this. They are still used by the providers to read your texts and listen in on your calls, plus tracking you based on the towers being used.
It's not easy to make a choice. If you have a smartphone with stock firmware, your whole life is being tracked, if you go with GrapheneOS (my case) some of that is minimized by using Signal and VOIP instead of mobile ams and calls. If you go with the dumb-phone, you're effectively clear from all those tracking methods, but the mobile providers still have a shitload of ways to follow you around together with what you do, when and with whom, but Big Tech is removed from the equation.
Unfortunately, other than not having a portable device of any type with some type of connection, we're flat out of options, and then that would effectively remove you from society for the most part. What a fucking conundrum.
lemmylump
in reply to NGC2346 • • •FineCoatMummy
in reply to lemmylump • • •What do you plan to do? Dumbphone? No phone? Break glass in case of emergency phone in a faraday pouch?
I'm considering a break-glass dumbphone in a faraday pouch. I REALLY fucking hate location tracking. I'd keep it seperate from my IRL ID. Prob is, it's hard. Screw up once, big data pounces. One call tied to your name in any way. One friend puts it in their contacts. One time to forget the pouch and there's a location ping at your residence. Not to mention the difficulty of even buying it and setting up a plan. Ugh :(
belunos
in reply to FineCoatMummy • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Sarcasmo220
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Batmorous
in reply to Sarcasmo220 • • •Patrikvo
in reply to Sarcasmo220 • • •topperharlie
in reply to Patrikvo • • •if they add this requirement for the "I'm not a robot" technology this affects way more than stupid Facebook, reddit and the likes, most things behind anti DDoS use this shit.
I find this very dystopian, and there are not many "oh I'll just visit the sites than don't have it" alternatives. You might as well just open IRC and be done with it, I tend to visit a bit more of the internet (even if I haven't visited Facebook, Instagram and the likes in years)
FineCoatMummy
in reply to topperharlie • • •Ayup absolutely. Those co's have such weight. They can drive this into essential services. Banks. Gov services. All online stores. Heck even sites that don't need logins.
It's short sighted to say "I'll just use other sites then". The end of that road is, we get excluded from modern life.
You're so right, it's dystopian.
Sarcasmo220
in reply to Patrikvo • • •eleitl
in reply to Sarcasmo220 • • •auzy1
in reply to NGC2346 • • •FeelThePower
in reply to NGC2346 • • •(Nitter addon enabled: Twitter links via https://nitter.privacytools.io)
Niquarl
in reply to FeelThePower • • •er/16609652
dogs0n
in reply to FeelThePower • • •Sounds like GrapheneOS isn't affected only for now?
As in sandboxed google play may stop working for this at any point.
;(
FeelThePower
in reply to dogs0n • • •Cantaloupe
in reply to NGC2346 • • •w3ird_sloth
in reply to NGC2346 • • •ramenshaman
in reply to w3ird_sloth • • •daggermoon
in reply to ramenshaman • • •SethDove
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Cantaloupe
in reply to NGC2346 • • •I should be good with sandboxed Google play.
But wtf we’ll need a phone to solve captchas now? What happens if you don’t have one?
HrabiaVulpes
in reply to Cantaloupe • • •boonhet
in reply to HrabiaVulpes • • •- YouTube
www.youtube.comviov
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Batmorous
in reply to NGC2346 • • •We seriously need to ask Valve to make SteamOS phones.
Not only will they be good for gaming but imagine being able to put other OS'es on it like PC's. Bazzite, PostmarketOS, etc. Plus Valve will still get revenue from people using the upcoming Steam ARM Game Store, and the current Bannerhub/Gamenative community android apps that enable playing PC games they own from Steam/GOG on Phones
Its such a huge opportunity that we all should be encouraging then to pursue now and after they release their current 3 big projects: Steam Controllers, Steam Machines, Steam Frames
Medic8teMe
in reply to Batmorous • • •Batmorous
in reply to Medic8teMe • • •I get where you are coming from. Out of all of the billionaires he is one that is one of the least bad out of the rest of them, and is doing plenty of good things himself. He got that wealth from Steam doing so well over the years co.pared to other billionaires that did the shadiest things imaginable
I don't agree with his yachts business yet I agree with his side project of making boats specifically for ocean research. I don't agree with him still getting paid so much today, yet I agree that he pays and treats his employees and customers well
End of the day it's another option to get open phones that can have bootloader unlocked to change OS, and not be locked down. It is good to have more options currently where there are few.
Many online PC gamers have this opinion too so overall its more so a matter of time and comes down to if Valve really wants to then they will.
eronth
in reply to Batmorous • • •kadotux
in reply to NGC2346 • • •smokeymcpott
in reply to kadotux • • •kadotux
in reply to smokeymcpott • • •I'll paste my other response:
Fairphone 4. It’s working out decently enough for me. To be clear, some features are still broken (most crucially phonecall audio, which only works via headset), speakers altogether started working just a couple of months ago in edge branch. Camera kinda works, but it takes just horrible pictures. Broken if you ask me. I like the “feel” i have with it, it no more feels like I’m carrying a spying device in my pocket, but a computer instead. There are drawbacks, like I have to do my banking old school, visiting the bank site via browser, but they are worth it for me. My phone screen time has definitely shortened. It’s more quiet now.
edit: and you can do cool stuff with it, with root access by default! I have signal-cli running as a systemd service, which connects to my matrix signal bridge :)
edit2: funny story about the mentioned signal-cli. I had to put the phone in the fridge, because otherwise while compiling it (had to be compiled, no packages available) hit the critical temp threshold and shut down.
... Show more...I'll paste my other response:
Fairphone 4. It’s working out decently enough for me. To be clear, some features are still broken (most crucially phonecall audio, which only works via headset), speakers altogether started working just a couple of months ago in edge branch. Camera kinda works, but it takes just horrible pictures. Broken if you ask me. I like the “feel” i have with it, it no more feels like I’m carrying a spying device in my pocket, but a computer instead. There are drawbacks, like I have to do my banking old school, visiting the bank site via browser, but they are worth it for me. My phone screen time has definitely shortened. It’s more quiet now.
edit: and you can do cool stuff with it, with root access by default! I have signal-cli running as a systemd service, which connects to my matrix signal bridge :)
edit2: funny story about the mentioned signal-cli. I had to put the phone in the fridge, because otherwise while compiling it (had to be compiled, no packages available) hit the critical temp threshold and shut down. :D Felt kinda funny. 2026, phones compiling in the fridge.
NightmareQueenJune
in reply to kadotux • • •kadotux
in reply to NightmareQueenJune • • •neo2478
in reply to kadotux • • •Which Fairphone, and how's it working for you?
I have the FP6 with e/os right now. It works pretty well, but I am against some decisions from Murena (like using OpenAI for voice recognition)
I'm looking forward to switching ROMs when there is more support for the FP6
kadotux
in reply to neo2478 • • •Fairphone 4. It's working out decently enough for me. To be clear, some features are still broken (most crucially phonecall audio, which only works via headset), speakers altogether started working just a couple of months ago in edge branch. Camera kinda works, but it takes just horrible pictures. Broken if you ask me. I like the "feel" i have with it, it no more feels like I'm carrying a spying device in my pocket, but a computer instead. There are drawbacks, like I have to do my banking old school, visiting the bank site via browser, but they are worth it for me. My phone screen time has definitely shortened. It's more quiet now.
edit: and you can do cool stuff with it, with root access by default! I have signal-cli running as a systemd service, which connects to my matrix signal bridge :)
edit2: funny story about the mentioned signal-cli. I had to put the phone in the fridge, because otherwise while compiling it (had to be compiled, no packages available) hit the critical temp threshold and shut down. :D Felt kinda funny. 2026, phones compiling in the fridge.
matlag
in reply to kadotux • • •pmOS does not have Google Play nor the Apple equivalent. GOS has the option of having a sandboxed Google Play.
FosterMolasses
in reply to matlag • • •naughtysnake
in reply to NGC2346 • • •greedytacothief
in reply to NGC2346 • • •lemonwood
in reply to greedytacothief • • •jabberwock
in reply to greedytacothief • • •It's intended to be a successor to the current reCAPTCHA, sold as harder to spoof than current picture-based versions. Now, almost from its start, CAPTCHA existed to train AI vision models. So Google basically painted themselves into a corner using free labor to train models good enough to recognize images, now they are switching to device signals.
That said, they're going to have to provide a compatibility layer for iOS which AFAIK doesn't come with Google Play Services right now. So I have some faith in the smart folks who make these de-shittified OSes working something out via microG or the like.
ruby
in reply to jabberwock • • •iOS has their own attestation/anti-tamper api similar to google's integrity api so that's going to be used instead. the only difference is that on iOS you'll need to download extra software specifically for this.
graphene devs said you can do it with their sandboxed version of gms but as far as i know that still involves having an account and handing over all your personal info to google.
rumba
in reply to greedytacothief • • •They're claiming it security authentication.
Realistically, it's keeping people in their walled garden.
You can use a web browser on a Linux computer and get right through, this change is to force people to only run latest generation google products.
This would also block people from using real google phones over a certain age where they cannot upgrade the OS anymore.
FineCoatMummy
in reply to rumba • • •I felt for a long time, "trusted computing" is such a doublespeak term. It gets avg ppl to think "Oh ofc i want to trust my device! Who wouldn't want that?"
Ofc what it really does, is gives BigTech the final control over everybody's dev.
rumba
in reply to FineCoatMummy • • •magnue
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Linkerbaan
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Jako302
in reply to Linkerbaan • • •Arthur Besse
in reply to Linkerbaan • • •Motorola partnership announcement - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion Forumrumba
in reply to Arthur Besse • • •You know what does fix that? boycotting sites that use their protection.
There are alternatives.
Arthur Besse
in reply to rumba • • •rumba
in reply to Arthur Besse • • •The only way that public services stop using a certain brand of captcha is when they get an unreasonable amounts of support requests.
we're REALLY good and being noisy when we want to be...
TiredTiger
in reply to rumba • • •neo2478
in reply to NGC2346 • • •poopsmith
in reply to neo2478 • • •neo2478
in reply to poopsmith • • •krolden
in reply to neo2478 • • •neo2478
in reply to krolden • • •There are mch more ethical companies than google to buy phones from, like Fairphone.
And "wayyy" less secure is very debatable. There a some security features missing, but still more than secure enough for the vast majority of users.
krolden
in reply to neo2478 • • •There is no ethical consumption under capitalism
Also I don't give a shit about ethics if being ethical means a cop can get into my phone
mcv
in reply to krolden • • •neo2478
in reply to krolden • • •That's such a cop out. Good luck to a cop trying to get into my phone. Grapheme is not the only ROM that prevents this.
And as the other comment said, there are companies that are way more ethical. Not perfect due to the system but way better.
And this mubd set of not giving a shit about ethics as long as things work well for you, is what enables companies to be shit and exploit the world.
Blue_Morpho
in reply to neo2478 • • •First off, that's software when the user asked for an alternative to the Pixel, which is hardware.
Secondly, I don't see how those are an alternative. It's websites locking you out unless you run Google Play Services. LineageOS etc doesn't run the official PlayServices which is what this requires.
neo2478
in reply to Blue_Morpho • • •I took the question as an alternative to Grapheme, but perhaps you are correct.
And all those OSes you could install. Google Play Services if you want, even sandbox them like Graphene.
shiftymccool
in reply to neo2478 • • •neo2478
in reply to shiftymccool • • •They are not as secure, but are private and more than secure enough in my opinion.
And some can be used with more ethical phones like the Fairphone.
GOS sometimes feel like a cult to me. GOS is absolutely the only good ROM and everything else is terrible. There is no nuance.
TootTootComingThru
in reply to neo2478 • • •Nobody's saying that those other ones are terrible and they are better than stock Android for security and less tracking here. But it is the best one and does things that the other ones don't.
You can use a fairphone with one of those and if you're happy with it, it's absolutely better than what most people do and if it works it works. But people really like GOS for a good reason. The cult comment can be applied to Linux users, so who gives a shit?
eru
in reply to neo2478 • • •the pixel is a very secure phone from a hardware level, the full list of security features missing from other android manufacturers is in the grapheneos faq
there is no comparable alternatives right now, though something might come out of the graphene and motorola deal
neo2478
in reply to eru • • •The question is, are those missing features actually meaningful enough to support an evil company?
For me they are not.
Bluescluestoothpaste
in reply to eru • • •mlfh
in reply to Bluescluestoothpaste • • •From the grapheneos faq section on device support, which details the kinds of hardware and firmware security features required and present on pixels (but may be missing on other devices):
... Show more...From the grapheneos faq section on device support, which details the kinds of hardware and firmware security features required and present on pixels (but may be missing on other devices):
GrapheneOS Frequently Asked Questions
GrapheneOSTootTootComingThru
in reply to neo2478 • • •There is and there never will be a perfect solution and you shouldn't let an imperfect solution stop you from using the best one of these just because buying a used pixel MIGHT urge somebody to buy another new one. You may not want to do that, but it is silly and way too idealistic and impractical to demand others not to switch to Graphene because of that.
Buying a used pixel to degoogle and make your phone more secure and less likely to spy on you more than balances out the potential for there being one more new pixel on the future. There will never be a perfect solution and this one is fine enough for most. You may disagree and that's ok.
neo2478
in reply to TootTootComingThru • • •There are other ROMs with other hardware that provide a similar level of privacy and more than enough security without giving money to google.
Yes they are also not perfect solutions, but they give you flexibility to support better phone manufacturers
FosterMolasses
in reply to neo2478 • • •monotremata
in reply to FosterMolasses • • •TotalSonic
in reply to monotremata • • •LOTS of phones other than Pixels come with an unlockable bootloader, just check the list of supported phones for Lineage, Postmarket, Ubuntu Touch, crDroid, etc.and you'll find a multitude of choices - many (most) of which are readily available in the USA as well. (source: me, who has flashed alternative AOSP ROM's and Ubuntu Touch to around a dozen phones & tablets, none of which were Pixel's)
What isn't possible though is relocking the bootloader after flashing an alternative ROM or OS onto nearly all of these, meaning there is minimal security if the phone is stolen, or tampered with while unsupervised. And for those requiring physical security for their devices, that is a big deal.
NGC2346
in reply to NGC2346 • • •u/CaperGrrl79
in reply to NGC2346 • • •NGC2346
in reply to u/CaperGrrl79 • • •FosterMolasses
in reply to u/CaperGrrl79 • • •cockmushroom
in reply to NGC2346 • • •xorollo
in reply to NGC2346 • • •kahoodd
in reply to xorollo • • •krolden
in reply to NGC2346 • • •blinfabian
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Freakazoid
in reply to blinfabian • • •YouTube is slow because a .js script that put a 5 sec artificial delay in time for using adblockers on the site.
Yt implemented it a while back.
Freakazoid
in reply to blinfabian • • •kepix
in reply to NGC2346 • • •ReginaPhalange
in reply to kepix • • •I don't know what they are going to do about "I don't have a phone" / "I only have a dumb phone" population.
I suspect that sometime soon I'll have to buy a stay-at-home Google certified device, to bridge the locked down features and services.
DillDough
in reply to ReginaPhalange • • •grrgyle
in reply to DillDough • • •nlgranger
in reply to DillDough • • •Shellofbiomatter
in reply to ReginaPhalange • • •kepix
in reply to ReginaPhalange • • •what if my phone is not charged, what if the camera is broken or simply covered due to work regulations. such a dumbass idea.
TiredTiger
in reply to NGC2346 • • •FosterMolasses
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Sounds like the other shoe just dropped on all the people who've been religiously swearing by GrapheneOS.
If it's based on Google: They can control it. You won't ever catch me utilizing "alternative" chromium providers exactly because of shit like this lol
Crozekiel
in reply to FosterMolasses • • •Bilb!
in reply to FosterMolasses • • •This is misunderstanding the problem, I think. This is not a weakness in GrapheneOS due to being an AOSP derivative, it's a weakness imposed by Google on all alternative OSes whether they are AOSP derived or not. They present a scannable code that will only be cleared if you scan it with Google's Android.
Unless there's something else going on here. Either way, anger should be directed at Google, not GOS or its users. (annoying though they might sometimes be ;)
favoredponcho
in reply to Bilb! • • •Bilb!
in reply to favoredponcho • • •FluorideMind
in reply to NGC2346 • • •grrgyle
in reply to FluorideMind • • •destiper
in reply to FluorideMind • • •FluorideMind
in reply to destiper • • •SocialistVibes01
in reply to FluorideMind • • •Doomsider
in reply to FluorideMind • • •Ah yes, the mythical small business capitalism we all hear about. I will agree it sounds good on paper and also seems to distribute money in a somewhat efficient manner.
Unfortunately there has never been a government able to regulate and keep capitalism this way. Other people have said it is simply not possible due to the nature of capitalism.
I think there is a worthwhile debate here around systems and culture. Perhaps capitalism could work if people were not inherently so greedy. I tend to believe that culture is the deciding factor which is a little disheartening honestly.
zqps
in reply to Doomsider • • •eldavi
in reply to zqps • • •@Doomsider@lemmy.world
the primary "authoritarian" government of the world has proven that it is possible and that keeping them under a tight leash is the only way to prevent them from indoctrinating the masses; that's why the number of billions and the wealth of the its millionaires have been steadily declining for the last decade or so, while simultaneously continuing to improve the quality of life for its citizens; meanwhile while the united states is poised to get its first trillionaire class very soon.
Doomsider
in reply to eldavi • • •eldavi
in reply to Doomsider • • •you're not wrong -- china's billionaire count is up. but here's the cycle that people in the west miss: a new crop of billionaires come along (eg. tech, evs, ai) and they replace the old crop (eg. real estate & manufacturing) that the chinese gov't already short-leashed, and boom, numbers jumped.
that new crop will experience their own slowdown too once they get their own short-leashes like the previous crop did. it happened around 2018-2024, and it'll happen again and again. china's churn is fast, but the pattern's the same every time: rise, stall, replace; no permanent footing/beachhead for a billionaire class from which to capture the system or spread misinformation like it is in the united states.
Doomsider
in reply to eldavi • • •The creation of even one billionaire is a dramatic failure for both culture and policy. Please spare me the hand waving.
Pretending billionaires are in check because the one party murders anyone who they disagree with is not what I would call an efficient system. Entire districts built that were empty without people, massive fraud, and waste. If you are pointing to this disorganized mess and proudly saying look at what we can do I am going to have to point out that it is ridiculous.
What China did do was lift several hundred million people out of poverty. Of course they turned to capitalism to do it and only after their failed policies cost tens of millions of lives. Instead of building on this accomplishment they have chosen to create a new billionaire social class on the backs of 6 days a week 12 hour shift working class.
China is increasingly looking a lot like the US with only one party. They are now the fourth largest producer of arms supplying conflict regions with weapons of death and destruction. They have built their country by working hand in hand with
... Show more...The creation of even one billionaire is a dramatic failure for both culture and policy. Please spare me the hand waving.
Pretending billionaires are in check because the one party murders anyone who they disagree with is not what I would call an efficient system. Entire districts built that were empty without people, massive fraud, and waste. If you are pointing to this disorganized mess and proudly saying look at what we can do I am going to have to point out that it is ridiculous.
What China did do was lift several hundred million people out of poverty. Of course they turned to capitalism to do it and only after their failed policies cost tens of millions of lives. Instead of building on this accomplishment they have chosen to create a new billionaire social class on the backs of 6 days a week 12 hour shift working class.
China is increasingly looking a lot like the US with only one party. They are now the fourth largest producer of arms supplying conflict regions with weapons of death and destruction. They have built their country by working hand in hand with the US. China is great because of the US not despite it.
The narratives the one party pushes are garbage and you truly have to be naive to believe the propaganda they spew forth.
eldavi
in reply to Doomsider • • •so much to to unpack, so i'm going to focus on the misinformation in your comment.
first, claiming china "murders anyone they disagree with" isn't evidence -- it's hyperbole. china's authoritarian, history suggests a necessity for it, but that line doesn't help your argument.
second, you say china turned to capitalism after "failed policies cost tens of millions of lives." that's a enormous, contested historical claim you're dropping like it's settled fact; it's not.
third, "china is great because of the us" is incredible oversimplification. china's growth came from its own labor, reforms, and global trade -- yes, including with the us, but that's mutual benefit, not charity.
you're right to criticize billionaire wealth and long work hours. but mixing valid criticism with exaggerated or contested claims just weakens your point. stick to the facts when criticizing china -- believe me, they're more than damning enough on their own.
Doomsider
in reply to eldavi • • •goldsea.com/article_details/ch…
Hyperbole, please. They actively use capital punishment. Just because you are okay with human rights violations because it is you "team" doesn't mean everyone else is.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Ch…
It is accepted that the famine was man made. I will gladly bring receipts because I am not in denial about reality.
"Over 6,700 American companies built operations in China by 2016, with a total estimated investment value exceeding $228 billion."
Where do you think China got all its investment money and technology. China helped billionaires in the US grow richer while allowing them to turn China into another capitalist hellscape. If your in denial about this that is okay.
I have not exaggerated anything, in fact I have only talked about the tip of a very big iceberg. I get you are indoctrinated into their propaganda. Obviously though, you can even see through some of their bullshit.
period of widespread famine in the People's Republic of China between the years 1959 and 1961 during the Great Leap Forward
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)eldavi
in reply to Doomsider • • •you're not wrong about everything you've stated, but you're also only half correct because your sources have skin in the game.
goldsea.com – your execution article. goldsea's an asian american ad-driven news aggregator, not an independent investigative outlet. like any all other media, their business model rewards sensational headlines. that's not a neutral source -- it's a conflict of interest baked in. in this case, they profit from making china look as brutal as possible. the article itself recycles cases from 2006 and 2008. why? because recent examples are harder to find or less dramatic and includes no updates for the cases; suspended sentences are a thing in china.
wikipedia & the great famine – yes, the famine happened. but wikipedia's sourcing on that page leans heavily on western cold war-era scholarship, almost all of which had its own political axe to grind and even liberals today recognize this. not saying the famine is false -- it's not -- but citing wikipedia as objective truth while calling me brainwashed is something very special. not ev
... Show more...you're not wrong about everything you've stated, but you're also only half correct because your sources have skin in the game.
goldsea.com – your execution article. goldsea's an asian american ad-driven news aggregator, not an independent investigative outlet. like any all other media, their business model rewards sensational headlines. that's not a neutral source -- it's a conflict of interest baked in. in this case, they profit from making china look as brutal as possible. the article itself recycles cases from 2006 and 2008. why? because recent examples are harder to find or less dramatic and includes no updates for the cases; suspended sentences are a thing in china.
wikipedia & the great famine – yes, the famine happened. but wikipedia's sourcing on that page leans heavily on western cold war-era scholarship, almost all of which had its own political axe to grind and even liberals today recognize this. not saying the famine is false -- it's not -- but citing wikipedia as objective truth while calling me brainwashed is something very special. not even elementary school students are allowed to cite wikipedia anymore because of how wrong it frequently is.
the us investment figure -- $228 billion from american companies. those companies didn't invest out of generosity. they invested for profit. so citing them as proof that "china is great because of the us" is like saying a customer made a restaurant successful out of kindness. like most americans, you're confusing corporate/oligarchic self-interest as if it were altruism.
nobody’s neutral. The difference is I hold the epstein oligarchy's kool-aid and china’s at the same arm’s length -- while your sources show that you full-throatedly chug the former.
Doomsider
in reply to eldavi • • •Everything I have stated is backed up by many years of research. I feel very comfortable with my statements. They are not exaggerated as you implied. I can go much further, but you would of course deny it all so there is little point.
I am not interested in your attack the messenger/source approach. This is a common trope of people who try to defend human rights abusing governments. Please don't confuse my criticism of China with my lack of ability to criticize the US. I have spent most of my life studying human rights abuses by the US.
I get you want to deny everything bad China has done, it is obvious you are indoctrinated because you bring up all the same talking points that are disseminated as propaganda by China.
I totally get you are denial of the US China partnership. They have been sleeping in each other's beds for a long time now despite the constant Orwellian propaganda from both sides. Saber rattlers aside, it is clear these economies are intertwined in ways that neither government would like to admit.
I do appreciate you maintain some impartiali
... Show more...Everything I have stated is backed up by many years of research. I feel very comfortable with my statements. They are not exaggerated as you implied. I can go much further, but you would of course deny it all so there is little point.
I am not interested in your attack the messenger/source approach. This is a common trope of people who try to defend human rights abusing governments. Please don't confuse my criticism of China with my lack of ability to criticize the US. I have spent most of my life studying human rights abuses by the US.
I get you want to deny everything bad China has done, it is obvious you are indoctrinated because you bring up all the same talking points that are disseminated as propaganda by China.
I totally get you are denial of the US China partnership. They have been sleeping in each other's beds for a long time now despite the constant Orwellian propaganda from both sides. Saber rattlers aside, it is clear these economies are intertwined in ways that neither government would like to admit.
I do appreciate you maintain some impartiality though. You have said some interesting things that I will further research in the future. Thank you.
eldavi
in reply to Doomsider • • •dismissing my source critique as a "trope" while spending multiple comments labeling me as indoctrinated, in denial, and propagandized is not a debate; it's a shield. (but it atleast didn't devolve into the usual name calling and snarkiness that typifies these exchanges).
also source critique isn't a "trope." it's how you separate solid evidence from noise or state sponsored propaganda. if your sources can't hold up to basic scrutiny, the problem isn't my attitude -- it's your evidence.
you're clearly smart and passionate, but calling everyone who pushes back "indoctrinated" is just a faster way to stop listening; there's no such thing as an unbiased/neutral party.
Doomsider
in reply to eldavi • • •You are not the first, second, or even the 100th person I have had this conversation with. If I am assuming something incorrectly I apologize.
You must understand when you are in denial about basic facts and spew common propaganda talking points you are going to get a similar response from most people who are aware of bias.
You are clearly a smart person so please know when someone else calls you on your bias it is for your benefit. The fact that you are personalizing being indoctrinated is silly. I receive the exact same type of push back and denialism from people who defend the US, so regardless of choosen country the results are the same.
I have a strong bias against governments and human rights abuses. I have an extremely negative view of the US and the countless crimes they have committed. When I was much younger I spent a considerable amount of time moving through socialist and communist circles.
As I have grown older I have begun to see through the rhetoric and propaganda of many systems, cultures, and governments I used to a look up to.
... Show more...Believe m
You are not the first, second, or even the 100th person I have had this conversation with. If I am assuming something incorrectly I apologize.
You must understand when you are in denial about basic facts and spew common propaganda talking points you are going to get a similar response from most people who are aware of bias.
You are clearly a smart person so please know when someone else calls you on your bias it is for your benefit. The fact that you are personalizing being indoctrinated is silly. I receive the exact same type of push back and denialism from people who defend the US, so regardless of choosen country the results are the same.
I have a strong bias against governments and human rights abuses. I have an extremely negative view of the US and the countless crimes they have committed. When I was much younger I spent a considerable amount of time moving through socialist and communist circles.
As I have grown older I have begun to see through the rhetoric and propaganda of many systems, cultures, and governments I used to a look up to.
Believe me when I say there is no government that deserves humanity currently.
iglou
in reply to FluorideMind • • •muusemuuse
in reply to destiper • • •sexy_peach
in reply to muusemuuse • • •Everything is possible. Some things just highly unlikely in the current political climate. I think the mamdani method of doing a shitload of door to door campaigning has been really successful in other parts of the world as well.
It can give a huge boost to leftist parties which then will be able to affect positive change but also change the political landscape. Overton window and all that.
What I'm saying is get the fuck out with your local leftist party/candidate or whatever if you can.
teyrnon
in reply to sexy_peach • • •sexy_peach
in reply to teyrnon • • •eldavi
in reply to sexy_peach • • •sexy_peach
in reply to eldavi • • •eldavi
in reply to sexy_peach • • •mcv
in reply to destiper • • •magnetosphere
in reply to mcv • • •Thank you for getting this quote right. Often, it’s shortened to “money is the root of all evil”, which hits different, and removes the element of personal responsibility. The “love of money” bit is important.
mcv
in reply to magnetosphere • • •cafuneandchill
in reply to NGC2346 • • •diaphragm w*rkplace
in reply to cafuneandchill • • •Noooo, don't look at the bad, look at the good. We have this place and Gemini (the good one) to express ourselves.
And besides, the title in this repost is a bit sensational. That specific captcha needs a phone with the Google app. You can just delete data + refresh until you get a different one. Nothing about specifically degoogled phones, people without phones are affected just as much. I am sure MicroG would work just as well (if not now, at least later). Also, ideally you should click the fuck away from recaptcha sites either way. Paradoxically, Google's own sites don't have it usually except the search but nobody needs that (at least anyone you would ask on here), DuckDuckGo + StartPage (OR SearXNG) is good enough.
NGC2346
in reply to cafuneandchill • • •First, don't.
Second, at least you won't get bombarded by auto mods spamming suicide hot line number.
cafuneandchill
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Don't worry, I won't.
It's just... everything kinda sucks hard these days. Internet and computer stuff in general is my getaway from all the depressing IRL stuff. But internet is also becoming shitty now. Personal computing is barely a thing nowadays; everything is turning into walled surveillance nightmares. Can't even call them "walled gardens", because gardens are actually supposed to be, like, nice things
Helix 🧬
in reply to cafuneandchill • • •sexy_peach
in reply to Helix 🧬 • • •TrippinMallard
in reply to cafuneandchill • • •I hear you. Centralization without regulation comes with a huge cost. I'm trying to use more decentralized services and self host replacement for all google services gradually. And eventually replace phone with a lora msg and gps device that only has phone capabilities when on wifi.
Simultaneously I'm trying to "Return to monke". interact less with technology and more with people and nature.
sexy_peach
in reply to cafuneandchill • • •Many things are actually amazing. Used enterprise hardware is faster and more affordable than ever. Desktop Linux is so much fun to use, we never have to interact with windows or mac. There's people out there working on mostly free or entirely free hard- and software.
Things weren't so good in the past either.
ericwdhs
in reply to cafuneandchill • • •The good news is that there are enough people feeling this that refuges from the enshittification are growing. We're in one right now.
Also, while online personal computing has definitely been getting worse, offline personal computing is better than it's ever been. Growing that is sort of like making your own walled garden.
That all said, only keep to technology as much as it improves your life. The other people saying to go into nature more have it right.
Vegafjord oakframer
in reply to NGC2346 • • •sexy_peach
in reply to Vegafjord oakframer • • •Vegafjord oakframer
in reply to NGC2346 • • •That's a raid!
Stand your ground.
Mio
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Manalith
in reply to Mio • • •LoafedBurrito
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Hiro8811
in reply to LoafedBurrito • • •OsrsNeedsF2P
in reply to NGC2346 • • •hietsu
in reply to OsrsNeedsF2P • • •zqps
in reply to hietsu • • •angband
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Manalith
in reply to angband • • •Ascend910
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Nalivai
in reply to Ascend910 • • •hexagonwin
in reply to Ascend910 • • •RoachFire
in reply to NGC2346 • • •AlJones
in reply to RoachFire • • •hexagonwin
in reply to RoachFire • • •teyrnon
in reply to RoachFire • • •eldavi
in reply to teyrnon • • •nek0d3r
in reply to teyrnon • • •teyrnon
in reply to nek0d3r • • •mcv
in reply to NGC2346 • • •Mwa
in reply to mcv • • •epicshepich
in reply to NGC2346 • • •sexy_peach
in reply to epicshepich • • •epicshepich
in reply to sexy_peach • • •eldavi
in reply to epicshepich • • •epicshepich
in reply to eldavi • • •I uninstalled Tik Tok almost 2 years ago and have heavily restricted my other social media usage since. Programming.dev (and the extended Lemmyverse) is the biggest cheat I permit myself. I do still waste more time scrolling than I want, but through it, I've been exposed to things that I feel make my life richer. And it is a lot less soul-crushing than commercial platforms that are jam packed with AI slop and are designed to be addicting.
That said, with I no longer have a way to keep up with trends and my main source of news is my wife, who is still plugged into TikTok. And honestly, I think I'm better off that way. I have way more time to read (and engage in other long-form content) and spend with my kids. I'm exposed to way less propaganda and outrage content. Looking back on days with 9+ hours spent on TikTok, it feels like I was part of a hive mind. I like being an individual again.
eldavi
in reply to epicshepich • • •Mwa
in reply to NGC2346 • • •schuelermine
in reply to NGC2346 • • •FG_3479
in reply to schuelermine • • •kbobabob
in reply to NGC2346 • • •korazail
in reply to NGC2346 • • •For a decade or two now, it's been pretty much assumed that everyone has an internet-connected, camera-equipped, browser-capable device in their pocket. Restaurants, banks, hospitals, employers and even government offices use QR codes and websites to get you to their menus, forms or services.
If ID is being tied to my mobile spy device, then I need my mobile spy device to be a right and not a luxury. $40-50 for a few years of validity, internet access provided at no cost, even if slow. I can have my luxury phone be where I'm 'anonymous', but I want the government to subsidize the mobile spy device if it's a mandatory expense. Even cheap phones cost a lot of money.
To be clear, I don't want ID tied to my phone, but it's gotten harder to exist without one, so it should be something we have access to with minimal friction.
Add food, water and shelter to that list, but you can't ask for them without a web browser.