Newborn dies after mother drinks raw milk during pregnancy arstechni.ca/seH4 #Infectiousdisease #foodsafety #pregnancy #listeria #kennedy #rawmilk #Health #death #ACOG #baby #fda
Newborn dies after mother drinks raw milk during pregnancy
Raw milk is promoted by anti-vaccine Health Secretary Kennedy.Beth Mole (Ars Technica)
FediThing
in reply to Ars Technica News • • •Good god ๐
We don't have to do this, we have the knowledge and medicine to prevent this. We don't have to go back to the 1800s.
Why are people listening to people like RFK jr? He has blood on his hands.
๐จ๐ฆ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆ๐จ๐ณ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ฆ
in reply to FediThing • • •@FediThing
Yes, indeed, why are people ignoring medical advice and going to quacks? This is a commonly-posed question that needs to be answered, but without self-serving smugness. There is a reason and it's one that should be taken seriously for a change instead of dismissing people as ignorant and stupid. (I mean they may actually be one or the other or both, but... I'm guessing that's only part of the answer.)
What we have here is an epistemic failure, not an intellectual one.
FediThing
in reply to ๐จ๐ฆ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆ๐จ๐ณ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ฆ • • •It's not smugness, it's anger at RFK jr et al. who are effectively killing babies by deliberately spreading medical misinformation.
๐จ๐ฆ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆ๐จ๐ณ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ฆ
in reply to FediThing • • •@FediThing You did mention RFK Jr., yes, but in the context of "people listening to" him.
There is a reason why people are listening to quacks and not doctors. To reverse this trend you have to understand why. You have to understand how the medical system has failed people to drive them into the arms of the quacks.
The uncomfortable question is "what are the quacks doing right that the medical establishment is botching?"
FediThing
in reply to ๐จ๐ฆ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆ๐จ๐ณ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ฆ • • •It might help if you gave a specific example, because without them it sounds like you're blaming honest doctors for the dishonesty of quacks.
๐จ๐ฆ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆ๐จ๐ณ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ฆ
in reply to FediThing • • •@FediThing A specific example of people listening to quacks over the medical establishment?
Look up in the thread. There's your specific example. Here, I'll replicate it: arstechni.ca/seH4
This woman is a specific example of someone who listened to quacks instead of the medical establishment. This is an epistemic failure, and of a variety that has become a veritable epidemic in the USA. What drove her away from medicine into the arms of charlatans?
That needs answering.
Newborn dies after mother drinks raw milk during pregnancy
Beth Mole (Ars Technica)FediThing
in reply to ๐จ๐ฆ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆ๐จ๐ณ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ฆ • • •You said that the "medical establishment" (whatever that means) has botched something.
Could you give an example of something being botched?
EDIT: Apologies, this was a terrible question by me, it's way too broad. I was trying to respond to a reply earlier in the thread which claimed quacks were doing stuff right that doctors were doing wrong, in relation to RFK jr telling people to drink raw milk.
๐จ๐ฆ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ณๅผ ๆฎฟๆ๐จ๐ณ๐ฉ๐ช๐จ๐ฆ
in reply to FediThing • • •@FediThing You are not reading what I typed.
Read again. This time for comprehension. I really don't have the time nor energy to wrestle with your discomfort at reality.
Adrianna Tan
in reply to FediThing • • •@FediThing @ZDL they sterilized Black and Native people involuntarily, for one, and those populations continue to be severely underserved
Most women, including women doctors, have stories of being medically ignored by doctors
sacobserver.com/2023/02/remembโฆ
Remember When the U.S. Sterilized Black People? Hereโs Why it Matters Today.
WordInBlack.com (The Sacramento Observer)fritzoids
in reply to Adrianna Tan • • •both my parents are MDs. They hate going to the doctor. To quote my father "Because I sat next to these guys at uni and I know exactly what kind of ignorant, arrogant, unkind arseholes they are."
When my mother had something in her lungs, my mother sitting there naked from the waist up had to actively tell the radiologists to include her in the conversation about the images instead of ignoring her and talking about her in front of her.
FediThing
in reply to fritzoids • • •These are horrific, I wasn't trying to say everything all doctors do is right. At the most extreme end there is Mengele of course. ๐
My message asking for examples was responding to someone who said "what are the quacks doing right that the medical establishment is botching?"
I was trying to get examples where botched medical stuff was being done right by quacks. I should have said this specifically rather than the more general question. Apologies.
fritzoids
in reply to FediThing • • •@FediThing @skinnylatte @ZDL
I think what the quacks are doing right (not RFK jr... but the ones with offices where people go seeking treatment) is: they listen and they make patients feel heard and seen. Too often what happens when someone goes to the doctor is that the doctor 1) doesn't have enough time to really look at the patient and 2) dismisses their symptoms as something somatic or due to their being overweight.
fritzoids
in reply to fritzoids • • •@FediThing
Too many very common ailments take too long to diagnose because doctors don't or can't take the time to do a differential diagnosis and do some research. E.g. endometriosis takes an average of 5-12 YEARS to get a diagnosis for. There are still gynos who think it's made up.
There are also too many doctors who instead of accepting the challenge actively dislike patients who bring their binder with all the information they have gathered and all the notes from specialists they have seen
fritzoids
in reply to fritzoids • • •But when people go to a herbalist or acupuncturist or homeopathic practitioner is someone who will sit down and listen to their frustrations with the medical system. Who will write down all the symptoms that they have and all the troubles that they have in their lives. Who might look at the binder full of notes by doctors and the patient themself and express interest in it.
What they recommend is humbug but they treat the patient like a human being that needs help.
FediThing
in reply to fritzoids • • •@fritzoids
I can understand going elsewhere if it seems like the medical world isn't listening.
However, where all this began was asking about RFK jr and drinking raw milk, the original post in this thread is c.im/@arstechnica/116009411713โฆ
I was asking why anyone would think listening to RFK jr and drinking raw milk is a good idea.
Ars Technica News
2026-02-03 23:59:02
fritzoids
in reply to FediThing • • •@FediThing
OK. THAT specifically comes about when you take negative experiences with doctors and add the uncertainty and anxiety that comes with being a first-time parent. There are many mommy influencers and some of them will - for various reasons - steer expecting parents towards resources that are unfortunately harmful. It is often coupled with telling people that having a disabled child is a moral failing.
It is adjacent to the crunchy-to-altright pipeline theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/โฆ
The Crunchy-to-Alt-Right Pipeline
Kathleen Belew (The Atlantic)FediThing
in reply to fritzoids • • •@fritzoids
"It is often coupled with telling people that having a disabled child is a moral failing."
These people are so heartless ๐
fritzoids
in reply to FediThing • • •and then you have the rich and famous, whose privilege insulates them from bad outcomes, espousing and promoting these kinds of anti-science, anti-medicine views. This is from 2014 sciencebasedmedicine.org/priviโฆ
remember Jenny McCarthy? Yeah. pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/articleโฆ
Add to that the platforming of Dr Oz and "Dr" Phil by people like Oprah, and I am not surprised that new parents take these bread crumbs and follow it to the witch's house.
Shit's bad.
archive.is/EAFYn
Jenny McCarthy: "We're Not An Anti-Vaccine Movement ... We're Pro-Safe Vaccine" | FRONTLINE | PBS | Official Site | Documentary Series
Jason M. Breslow (FRONTLINE | PBS)fritzoids
in reply to fritzoids • • •@FediThing
there's also shaming people for having their babies WEAR DIAPERS! You can't put a baby in a diaper! You monster! You're overriding their innate need to be clean and communicate with you about when they're going to pee or poop.
Here's Dr. Mayim Bialik - of Blossom or Amy Farrah Fowler fame - to explain Elimination Communication to you:
youtu.be/26PP2ItZbf8
- YouTube
youtu.beFediThing
in reply to fritzoids • • •@fritzoids
Why are they doing this? Power? Money from subscriptions? Both?
fritzoids
in reply to FediThing • • •@FediThing
I think for some people it is just part of their just world fallacy and the wish to retain some sense of control in a situation that is kinda scary and out of your control (pregnancy and birth but also cancer diagnosis as examples).
And yes, there's people who profit off the attention in terms of money and influence.
But there's also people whose power requires the misogyny and ableism and fear.
FediThing
Unknown parent • • •I'm sorry to hear your experiences, they sound horrible.
I didn't mean to imply that doctors never do anything wrong. Apologies.
I was trying to respond to someone who claimed quacks were doing stuff right that doctors were doing wrong. I was wanting to respond to the stuff about quacks specifically, but the question I asked in response was far too broad. Sorry about that, I'll try to be more careful next time.
NilaJones
Unknown parent • • •@FediThing @ZDL
Oh, another one. I have been on oxygen since 2020 covid. And I've been trying ever since to get an appointment with a pulmonologist
I finally got one this December. Had to cancel my family's holiday celebration for it
The doctor spent 10 minutes with me, was completely ignorant of recent research on covid lung damage (I'm talking nature and the BMJ, not some woowoo thing), rude and unkind
It was so distressing that I cried for 2 days. Worst holiday ever
There are some good doctors in standard Western medicine. But they are hard to find