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Berlin: Police can secretly enter homes for state trojan installation


cross-posted from: lemmy.zip/post/54414754

In order to monitor encrypted communication, investigators will in future, according to the Senate draft and the Änderungen der Abgeordneten, not only be allowed to hack IT systems but also to secretly enter suspects' apartments.

If remote installation of the spyware is technically not possible, paragraph 26 explicitly allows investigators to "secretly enter and search premises" in order to gain access to IT systems. In fact, Berlin is thus legalizing – as Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania did before – state intrusion into private apartments in order to physically install Trojans, for example via USB stick.


in reply to schizoidman

In the US it's always been possible to do this with a proper warrant, though avoiding detection if the person expects something could be difficult. Security cameras and so on.

I'm not too bothered by this given how much work it is. They will only do it if there's a criminal case or some other significant interest to work from. It's not a tool of warrantless mass surveillance even though it's been done abusively/illegally from time to time.

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to solrize

They will only do it if there's a criminal case or some other significant interest to work from.


Significant interest has, just to name a few, lead to german SWAT storming the wrong appartment because somebody who used to live there called a politician a wiener on facebook. And also locking down entire main train stations for hours on account of some guy or at best a "super recognizer" saw what looked like the AI aged version of an RAF member. Or confiscating literally every electronic from someone because they used chalk spray on something (which is not vandalism as ruled by many judgements because it just washes off).

in reply to solrize

Feeling like this is a gliding scale though. What's next, a surveillance state?
in reply to birdwing

I think those are two different things. They might do 1000s of secret break-ins per year, maybe 10,000's. But probably not millions. OTOH, mass surveillance is used against just about everyone, i.e. billions. So the scale is different.

Here in the US, I suspect secret break-ins are rare, because they are risky (armed occupants etc). So they do SWAT raids instead. Abusive and too often fatal, but not that secret.

in reply to solrize

Yes, the EU itself is working hard on the surveillance state separately.
Chat control being one of them
in reply to solrize

Think about what we did in Ireland in the 80s. It's no different, and it only worked marginally. Although that cpuld be because opsec was pretty good among the provisional IRA active cells.
in reply to grey_maniac

Idk how stuff was done in Ireland but there weren't so many computers then. It's probably easier to install audio bugs than conduct an "evil maid attack" (infosec term for surreptitiously messing with someone's computer, traditionally in the person's hotel room) if they have taken any precautions.
in reply to solrize

Yeah, it doesn't scale. Most of the surveillance (legal intercept, SINA hardware on ISP) and injection of government malware will be through the hostile network.
People who run a tight ship will have a small attack surface.
in reply to solrize

In theory a judge has to look through each surveillance act of the police in germoney, in 12 years not a single one got denied. Because its paperwork to defend civil rights but just nodding to whatever the officers say costs nothing
in reply to solrize

I was under the impression that not only has this been the (German) law for decades, it used to be the only legal way of installing spyware and also exfiltrating data. But I can't be assed to look it up.
This entry was edited (15 hours ago)
in reply to schizoidman

any site where I can download this cool spyware and run it so they don't enter my home? Does it run on Arch Linux?

Wonder if they'd install it on all devices or only my desktop since I have all others with me at all times...

in reply to schizoidman

Something something european democracy something something bulwark against Russian Chinese authoritarianism, something something east german stasi

Such hollow, opportunistic rehtoric from people and governments who are doing the exact same things they accuse others of. Germany in particular, with it's to-the-hilt support of Israel's genocide, does not seem to have learned it's lesson.

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to RiverRock

fascists generally accuse others of what they are doing themselves. like how some of the most homophobic ones are sometimes secretly very gay.

because these people's politics aren't based on facts, but their feelings, ironically.

in reply to RiverRock

National leaders only pretend to be opposed to each other.

In reality, they all know that their citizens are slaves to make them richer.

in reply to schizoidman

That's not a police job. Is german secret service entirely useless or what?
in reply to schizoidman

This is kinda silly. Most implants are installed by the NSA at the airport when you buy the device.

It's much easier for them to install implants on devices at the time you order it than to break into your house.

in reply to quick_snail

It is not silly, it is oppressive. Sure it is easier to install malware at the airport, but now they got "legal" ways of entering your apartment without your knowledge. This would make planting evidence so much easier. I am not saying we are at this point were the police plants evidence to get a case against someone but it is paving the road.

Why implement the law in the first place? Because it makes it easier for the people to live with the oppression. We sure like to believe we are free.

in reply to Lowleekun [comrade/them, he/him]

Sure, it's bad. But it shows they're inept.

It's pretty damn hard to enter someone's home without your knowledge, when so many homes and apartment buildings have cameras everywhere these days..

in reply to schizoidman

Well, that sounds very undue-processy of them. Obviously what a same, civilized society would allow.
in reply to schizoidman

If I ever move to Germany I'll remember to booby trap my doors and windows.
in reply to schizoidman

Capitalism advanced towards end stage.
This entry was edited (6 hours ago)