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No AI* Here - A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter - Waterfox Blog


in reply to Nutomic

Does anyone know about Zen browser, if they stay abstinent as well?
in reply to freeman

floss.social/@zenbrowser/11573…


We noticed a rising interest regarding the use of AI in browsers. To be clear about our position on this: Zen currently is disabling all AI features included in Firefox and will continue to do so.

in reply to jest

Thank god
(And thank @zenbrowser@floss.social !)
in reply to freeman

Yes, an explicit No to AI, also LibreWolf said the same, no AI, that means that every fork will have AI disabled


We noticed a rising interest regarding the use of AI in browsers. To be clear about our position on this: Zen currently is disabling all AI features included in Firefox and will continue to do so.

in reply to Nutomic

in reply to CerebralHawks

The new CEO isn't talking about the AI that's already in Firefox. He's talking about more AI with greater integration.

"Firefox will grow from a browser into a broader ecosystem of trusted software. Firefox will remain our anchor. It will evolve into a modern AI browser and support a portfolio of new and trusted software additions."

in reply to MagnificentSteiner

We here at $brand think your car should be more than just a car… that’s why we’re now including a panini maker in all models! And no, you can’t take it out of the trunk. Just don’t use it if you don’t want it, silly!
in reply to khornechips

... Why did I read it as panty (panni?) maker?

I blame panini for being an uncommon word

in reply to MagnificentSteiner

Ah, so speculation. I speculate that AI will decide we're not useful and go all Skynet/Matrix on us. I sure hope I'm wrong. But if I try to sell you a doomsday bunker, you have every right to laugh in my face.

Who knows what Firefox will look like tomorrow? I do agree it's important to keep options open, knowing about Waterfox, LibreWolf, IceCat, and maybe some others.

in reply to Nutomic

Don't get me wrong I hate LLMs being shoved down our throats, but I think the "Mozilla using AI" stuff is overblown. The few LLM features they've implemented are useful and non-intrusive. I actually think it's a rare example of the tech being used intelligently (no pun intended).
in reply to James R Kirk

I wonder how long before someone says "Having to wait for security patches to be made only when new exploits are discovered is inefficient, we need an AI agent running all the time, inspecting every command, to respond immediately if an exploit is found." and then they just stop security patches and you need that AI crap consuming ram and energy like hell while sending all your data to the mothership.
in reply to James R Kirk

I could not disagree more. a browser is a local piece of software to me that I use to connect to a variety of servers. It having an ai server its communicating with all the time and with access outside the add on system is not something I want. I have looked at and was not put off by other firefox "controversies" but this one is making it where it is not simply a browser anymore. which is what I want.
in reply to HubertManne

Well you're in luck because the translation feature is local support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/w…
in reply to James R Kirk

this does not make me happier. I can turn it off but if im going to run a local llm I rather do that as its own piece of software. Its funny because I have mentioned I would like to see a linux operating system using a local llm where its acting a bit like the change from text based to gui based operating systems. I don't want every piece of software operating a local llm to do its job or a part of its job on my computer. Its great I can turn it off but I don't want to be downloading an llm model with every piece of software and just turn it off for my browser and my office suite and anything else im running. Its actually worse with the browser that already has taken over so much of the application space as a kind of universal tool.
in reply to HubertManne

Bloat is a valid concern but imo a lesser one compared to the potential for centralized data harvesting.
in reply to chicken

Well the claim is since its being done on your host all good but honestly I don't want it in it. Not just bloat but because it becomes something that is always going to have to keep an eye for if its talking afield. Its getting like windows. Heck I allowed firefox telemetry before but turning it off now.
in reply to James R Kirk

These things have been incredibly intrusive. They even added a whole sidebar to take up more space like they were fucking Yahoo and this was IE.
in reply to atomicbocks

Weird, I don't have a new AI sidebar and I'm running the latest version.
in reply to James R Kirk

I’ve been distro hopping lately, and I’ve discovered that if you don’t turn the sidebar off before you log into your Mozilla account, it will turn the sidebar back on on all of your other Firefoxes (as well as other settings like the studies).
in reply to Nutomic

This entry was edited (23 hours ago)
in reply to Libb

I first started on Mosaic and Lynx! That was a lifetime ago.
in reply to RalphFurley

I am still using lynx, everyday. Not for everything, but for most if my news and blog reading.

It feels great to not being bombarded by the flashy, distracting JavaScript gizmo du-jour. I want to read the content, I don't care about the AI generated picture at the of the page, or the random picture of something half related to the article.

I believe everybody should build their website to be accessible with lynx.

Accessibility isn't just following the standards and removing the mess from the modern web, it's also making your site accessible for the people with eyesight problems for example...

in reply to Nutomic

Firefox clones like librewolf and waterfox greatly increase the supply chain attack risk, but they seems more and more attractive every day
in reply to rain_lover

I'm obviously not OP but the first thing that comes to mind are attacks like the one that targeted xz. Open source developers are generally overloaded between demands from the community and their regular lives, and they also lack the means and ability to check the background of everyone contributing code or vying for maintainer status. This creates the risk that somebody with bad intentions works their way into a position of some power over the code that gets merged. Bigger projects with strict governance and an active community of contributors (or funding for dedicated developers to maintain control and check outside contributions) have much smaller risk in this regard.
in reply to rain_lover

Some things are riskier than others. The point is that you understand the risk and make informed choices.
in reply to Blizzard

Jokes aside, is Vivaldi good? Is it worth looking into even tho it’s just another chromium browser?
in reply to nothx [he/him]

It's very good! Honestly, try it. I use it on Android, Linux and Windows. Very customizable and pro-user, nice community.

It's based on Chromium but they declared they'll keep supporting Manifest v2 extensions (uBlock Origin etc.) how long it will be virtually possible even though Chrome blocked them.

in reply to Blizzard

Yeah, I had heard they are doing a lot to leverage chromium, but also distance themselves from it as much as they reasonably can. I’ll definitely have to give it another try, it just takes a lot for me to swallow the fact that’s chrome based browsers have to rely on google to some extent, but I’m intrigued by their way for doing it.
in reply to nothx [he/him]

Yes, using it since 10 years as main browser. It's the most advanced browser out there, good privacy, great ethics to the user by this EU company (employee owned cooperative in Norway), perfect transparency, great community, and yes it isn't OpenSource, but source available (github.com/ric2b/Vivaldi-brows… vivaldi.com/source/), the proprietary part (5% of the UI script is 100% auditable and even moddeable by the user, in the forum they show how (naturally at own risk)). It's Chromium based (de-googled), but not a simple fork like other.
This entry was edited (6 hours ago)
in reply to Zerush

All that is very intriguing. Chromium based browser make me weary, but Im willing to add it to my rotation of browsers. Thanks for the response.
in reply to Nutomic

We still need some organisational alternative to Mozilla. None of the privacy forks would survive Firefox going away.
in reply to exu

Yes all the derivatives would die if Firefox went away.
in reply to Nutomic

I'm currently in the process of switching to Waterfox while I wait to see what Ladybird can do, and so far I'm pretty happy with my decision.
in reply to Nutomic

I wish people would stop talking about "AI browsers" like everyone even knows what that actually means.
in reply to blackbrook

At this point nothing will stop me having a visceral negative reaction to AI being added to any product after literally every single other implementation in literally every other product has been annoying fucking dogshit. It could be the best thing ever and I'd still react negatively because I never want to hear the god damn word again.
This entry was edited (17 hours ago)
in reply to Awoo [she/her]

Every company wants AI even though they have no idea how it helps their business or their company.

My grocery store app does not need AI when they can't even get search right.

in reply to Nutomic

I just switched from Firefox to waterfox. It took less than five minutes, and the installation is quite straightforward on Linux. Move the folder to opt, make a symlink, and create a .desktop. The instructions are on the website. I suggest switching the default search to duckduckgo.
in reply to Nutomic

Will they have an android version on f droid ? Prefer not to use Google play...
in reply to bridgeenjoyer

No search.f-droid.org/?q=waterfox and they don't seem to list it on their official page either. Please show your interest at github.com/BrowserWorks/waterf…
in reply to Nutomic

i've been pretty disallusioned with Mozilla leadership

i've jumped back to Chrome for the time being

i'll be moving to servo/verso as soon as it meets my needs

in reply to jokeyrhyme

That's a wild take. That's like saying you're uncomfortable in the sauna so you moved to the desert.
in reply to Nutomic

I just switched to it on my android. Set as default. So far so good. Never heard of it until today.
in reply to Nutomic

Waterfox is fantastic! I also self host searxng and have it set as the default search engine in waterfox. private search!