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A New Anonymous Phone Carrier Lets You Sign Up With Nothing but a Zip Code


https://www.wired.com/story/new-anonymous-phone-carrier-sign-up-with-nothing-but-a-zip-code/

This entry was edited (2 days ago)
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

phreeli.com

Phreeli users can also pay their bills with tough-to-trace cryptocurrency like Zcash or Monero.


Lies. I did this so you don't have to.

This entry was edited (2 days ago)
in reply to artyom

That's just on the $25 plan because it's auto-pay only. The other plans accept crypto.
in reply to artyom

I think that's the point. You can trade some privacy for convenience if you insist.
in reply to seathru

Sounds like you're trading money for privacy. Why isn't it available on the $25 tier?
in reply to artyom

Good point. Many companies offer discounts for crypto. It's disappointing to see a crypto surcharge here :(
in reply to artyom

A~~n autopay discount~~ fee for not using autopay is the standard in US cellular.
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

i guess they're gonna be abused to hell..
in reply to hexagonwin

Why? Isn't it usual for prepaid in the US already?
in reply to u/lukmly013 💾 (lemmy.sdf.org)

De facto, no.

Yes, there are still some services where there are absolutely zero questions asked and all you need is a prepaid card that doesn't need to be activated at all. Those are quite rare and have a very limited number of phone numbers allocated to them and pretty much are all flagged as spam/bots by every single system out there.

The next tier up are services where you technically don't need to provide any ID to use a prepaid card... but the store you purchased it from needs your ID/credit card to activate the card when you buy it. Those ALSO tend to have the same problems with burned numbers.

What most people have as burners these days are just the same phone service as anyone else. They just pay a rebranded t-mobile at the start of the month rather than the end of the month. And those have all the same restrictions, and capabilities, as "real" phone plans.

in reply to NuXCOM_90Percent

Interesting. I thought it was more like in Czech Republic. Buy a prepaid SIM, put it into phone, it activates with the first call and there you go.
When I checked one from T-Mobile, name and surname get automatically pre-filled in the personal data card, as "Anonym Anonym", that is.
in reply to NuXCOM_90Percent

It really didn't used to be this way. I remember distinctly walking into a metro PCs store in the late 2000's/early 2010's and being told by the guy there they didn't care what your name was, you could write down bugs bunny and they'd still take your payment and activate your service. But because of that lots of... Less than reputable people did just that and things kind of ended up how they are now.

I think there was at one point a switch to VOIP because of that change, and after that VOIP providers started tightening things down, so now your best bet is probably to pay someone in crypto to import an already activated phone.

in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

I just searched for them and all that came up was the new articles all released within 24h...

Honeypot?

in reply to WhatGodIsMadeOf

It says this was created by the founder of the Calyx foundation, who is a reputable guy. So unless they're just lying, I think it's legit. Still might give it a few days or weeks to see what shakes out. Probably just paid marketing.
in reply to WhatGodIsMadeOf

Nick Merrill is freaking legit. He was behind Calyx before, one of the few people who's challenged, and won, an NSL. I can't see him flipping, ever.
in reply to wildbus8979

Had no idea this was him. Explains the decision to back away from calyxos and do this then.

Great stuff.

in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

Is there a reason they used an image of a phone with a screen smeared with what looks like rendered goose fat?
in reply to ApeNo1

i think it's fingerprints...?

Like a pun on data fingerprinting. But that's not exactly what this service protects against.

This entry was edited (2 days ago)
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

I've bought and activated several prepaid phones over the years, paid cash, obviously pseudonymous name, no ID. Last was several years ago, idk if you can still do that. When I did it, it was at phone stores and they told me it was ok.

That said, phones will never be private. There's too much tracking and logging. People can't accept that, because they love their phones too much. But you have to make a choice. Anonymous carriers are of almost no help because all the stuff about deanonymizing database records applies even more to phones. At best they help stay away from some marketing crap and stuff on that level. Government surveillance will see right through it.

This entry was edited (2 days ago)
in reply to solrize

Its still possible some places, but a lot of stores have cracked down on it
in reply to oscardejarjayes [comrade/them]

It’s not possible in any corporate stores purely for the fact that they use facial recognition extensively. Doesn’t matter if you can technically get away with paying cash and using a fake name. You’re being tracked the moment their cameras can see you and they have extensive profiles on people even if you’ve never used a debit card, given them an email, or given them a phone number.
in reply to lib1 [comrade/them]

Also, the ones I've seen in stores lately hare only the trial offers that are only good for a couple days and have to be "replenished" with an online account to stay functional for more than a couple days. Mint wouldn't even activate initially with an email alias. I called support and they said "we can't activate it with that email, we need your real email." I then told them no worries, I'd just return it to best buy. Then they "found a way" to activate it, but I would have needed to give a credit card if I wanted it to stay active more than the 3 days. Best buy didn't carry any longer duration prepaid card in the stores.
in reply to lib1 [comrade/them]

Pay some guy to go in and buy them.

Or have them mailed to someone you know

Or use prepaid esim, paid with prepaid debit card

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to solrize

You can still do it.

Just buy from a heavily trafficked grocery store. Arrive by foot. Wear a good covid mask. Pay with cash. Wait a few weeks after purchase before use.

Before you turn it on, cover all cameras with tape and disable the microphone if you can (or plug it with a cutoff headphone jack).

Cut a piece of paper and wedge it between the battery leads. Only pull it out and turn it on in a public place far from your home. And you have to burn the phone after every service you activate.

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

IIRC, I didn't have best experience using T-Mobile.
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

Please can he start working in Europe too? We need to support his resilience.
in reply to MrSulu

What stops anyone outside the us from using this service? The postcode doesn't need to be verifiable, if needed, just use a VPN?
in reply to icelimit

Great idea, we have some slight difference in frequencies but probably worth trying if the sim cards allow international roaming without breaking the bank.
in reply to MrSulu

I was just thinking as a phone number for all those services that ask for phone numbers to sign up.
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

You don't even need a zipcode if you use silent.link/ then you can pay with whatever crypto and have an esim where the balance never expires and it works in most of the world. I've used it a few months and it's pretty good if you don't need a phone number.
in reply to ray

Interesting because the article says the ZIP code is required for tax purposes

Maybe the owner is outside of the US, maybe it’s OK?

in reply to ray

How does an esim work with no number? Data only?
in reply to hanrahan

This, and because there's no number it's easier for them to not have KYC.
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

Very impressive.

When will this service be forced to change or shut down? I think five years. Possibly less if a major case hits the news where a bad actor used the service.

in reply to brbposting

seems like a boon to swatters and the shitbags of the world... sure, privacy minded people, ICE trackers etc., yeah, but also.... the shitbags...
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

in reply to potatopotato

How would they have the name from a call with this service? Or are you talking about other carriers?
in reply to Scolding7300

That's the question, what are they actually providing to warrants. You don't need to provide a name to be able to identify someone. Do they provide logs or data that could be uniquely identifying before the police pull a tower dump? Who knows...
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

Holy wall of text Batman! I’m lowkey interested in the service, but uhhhh…
This entry was edited (2 days ago)
in reply to DolphinMath

in reply to Zerush

I'm sorry, I truly do not intend to be impolite and I didn't downvote you, but I think people can ask AI for a summary if they want to themselves.

Sorry again. I just really don't like AI, and my expectation of a social media website is for it to be about human interactions. We can talk with AI anytime we want, what we're lacking is pure human communication.

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to QuestionMark

Agree, but such a brick of the posted text also don't make easy a good conversation, in this case a summary can be helpfull knowing what is about.
in reply to Zerush

But that ‘brick’ of the posted text is just the article that is linked. So if we are commenting under a post dedicated to the article it would stand to reason that we read the article itself, would you not agree?
in reply to Zerush

a summary can be helpfull


No. LLMs can't reliably summarize without inserting made-up things, which your now-deleted comment (which can still be read in the modlog here) is a great example of. I'm not going to waste my time reading the whole thing to see how much is right or wrong but it literally fabricated a nonexistent URL 😂

Please don't ever post an LLM summary again.

in reply to Zerush

I actually do intend to be impolite. Stop copying and pasting bullshit AI reposes. That ziponlymobile.com isn’t even a real url. Typical ChatGPT slop.
in reply to Zerush

Lmao it just…made up a website out of thin air.
in reply to MeThisGuy

They think my boss is gonna switch to session just to send me messages.

They also think NOT about the privacy implications behind using cellular services in general, even just for data (which using a different messaging app doesn't help).

in reply to Matt

soatok.blog/2025/01/14/dont-us…
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

I have to read this all soon. But I hope something like this shows up for Canada.
in reply to ArmchairAce1944

In Canada? Not happening. Canada is chasing the EU and the UK in everything related to chat control and all that crap.
in reply to ArmchairAce1944

Yeah, but Canada is just one of the next in line, we'll all be battling that eventually, with very little chance at winning too. It sucks.
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

Do they offer post paid plans, so I can use the bill for proof of residency?
in reply to SuperNovaStar

Considering they don't want your address or name, how the hell would that work anyway? This had to be a joke...
in reply to Another Catgirl

I make sure to lock my ISOs in a dungeon every night for maximum tormenting speed.
in reply to DanVctr

And only feed it every 3 days. Oh, and play fucking 'dembow' at full blast 24/7, that'll drive anyone crazy.
in reply to DanVctr

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

Merrill says. “If we were able to set up our own network of cell towers globally, we can set the privacy policies of what those towers see and collect.”


Well that's ambitious

in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

So he’s created the next best thing: a so-called mobile virtual network operator, or MVNO, a kind of virtual phone carrier that pays one of the big, established ones—in Phreeli’s case, T-Mobile—to use its infrastructure.

The result is something like a cellular prophylactic. The towers are T-Mobile’s...


So T-Mobile sees all of your DNS queries, the numbers of everyone you call, and can read all your SMS messages. And fingerprint your voice. And triangulate your position.

So, unless you avoid all of this with DOH, never making phone calls (and making sure no friends or family or employer or banks call you), never turn the phone on at your home address, and never using SMS: they'll be able to identity the owner of your plan within the first week of typical usage data collection

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to quick_snail

you can configure some phones to encrypt all sms messages.

It's a bit like PGP email though in that, despite it working, no one seems to use it

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to PrettyFlyForAFatGuy

Don't spread misinformation. SMS cannot have e2ee.

Sure you can wrap it with some other layer of encryption. But, as you say, that doesn't work because the recipient can't decrypt it.

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to quick_snail

I think they may have meant it like that, email does not support PGP out of the box, it is just the medium the data is using. In the same way you can send data via SMS that is encrypted when it leaves one device and decryped when it reaches its destination (unless the recipient doesn't have a way to decrypt it, which I think is both of your points).
in reply to quick_snail

It's not misinformation. SMS can have end to end encryption if the messages exchanged between two people in a conversation are encrypted.

It's an add on, in much the way PGP encryption works for email. the first handshake is unencrypted and includes each participants public keys, after that you can have it automatically encrypt each message

in reply to PrettyFlyForAFatGuy

Okay, but like, if the carrier sees all your texts, don't they also receive the public keys and can then also decrypt the messages?? I'm genuinely curious how this works. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced I don't understand how any encryption works because the intended recipient needs the key to decrypt it, and if I'm giving them that key, but my traffic is also being watched... doesn't whoever wants to snoop get the key too??

I feel like I have to be missing something because this just sounds like having an encrypted flash drive that you leave out in the open for someone else to grab, but it has the password written on the side of it in sharpie.

in reply to Crozekiel

public keys


I'm not too sure how cryptography works, but I'm pretty sure it's fine if other people have your public key. I'm reasonably sure it's actually required in a system with public and private keys.

in reply to Crozekiel

don’t they also receive the public keys and can then also decrypt the messages??


A public key is used to encrypt a message, you need the private key to decrypt.

That's why you have public key servers. it doesn't matter who has the public key, all they can do with it is encrypt information that only the private key holder can decrypt.

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced I don’t understand how any encryption works because the intended recipient needs the key to decrypt it


The way it was explained to me that finally made it click was so:

Imagine you have a lockable box (public key) and a key (private key), the box is empty so you give it to your friend. it doesn't matter if anyone sees the open box because there's nothing in it. your friend puts something private for you in the box and locks it. People see the box as he's bringing it to you but they can't see what's in the box because neither him nor the people watching have the key to the box; only you do. once it gets to you you can open the box with your key

in reply to PrettyFlyForAFatGuy

OH. So like, it's a situation where the "lock" has 2 keys, one that locks it and one that unlocks it. You keep the "unlock" key on your person and never let it out of your sight, but let the "lock" key just gets distributed and copied anywhere because all it can do is LOCK the door, and it really doesn't matter who locks the door so long as only you can unlock it.

That is very interesting. I still don't quite understand how it technically works, because I thought if you encrypt something with a key, you could basically "do it backwards" to get the original information... This is probably due to getting simplified explanations of encryption though that makes them analogous to a basic cipher (take every letter, assign it to a number, add 10, convert back to new letter - can't be read unless someone knows or figures out the "key" is 10) and now it is obvious that it is significantly more complex than that...

But I am much more confident that I understand the 'mechanics' of it, so thank you for the explanation!

in reply to Crozekiel

Yep, you lock with the public key and unlock with the private.

You can't unlock with the public, it's one way only

in reply to Crozekiel

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to Arthur Besse

Amazing, thank you for the in-depth (but simple enough) explanation!
in reply to PrettyFlyForAFatGuy

SMS can have end to end encryption


in theory it can, but in practice i'm not aware of any software anyone uses today which does that. (are you? which?)

TextSecure, the predecessor to Signal, did actually originally use SMS to transport OTR-encrypted messages, but it stopped doing that and switched to requiring a data connection and using Amazon Web Services as an intermediary long ago (before it was merged with their calling app RedPhone and renamed to Signal).

edit: i forgot, there was also an SMS-encrypting fork of TextSecure called SMSSecure, later renamed Silence. It hasn't been updated in 5 (on github) or 6 (on f-droid) years but maybe it still works? 🤷

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to Arthur Besse

I was thinking of RCS security apparently, but was mainly talking about what's theoretically possible.

There's nothing stopping someone creating a E2E encrypted SMS app. The medium doesn't matter, only the data. You could have end to end encrypted carrier pigeons if you want.

in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

TLDR; Nicholas Merrill, a well known privacy activist, launched Phreeli, a phone service that lets you use mobile data and calls without giving your identity. It runs on T Mobiles network but only keeps a ZIP code and uses zero knowledge crypto so even payments are not linked to you. Merrill spent 10 years fighting the FBI over surveillance and now wants to make privacy simple and normal for everyone.
in reply to delta_fsociety

yoo you know people who need video editors or advert creators??
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

Can someone with experience doing ZK Proofs please poke holes in this design?
in reply to quick_snail

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to Arthur Besse

If they use a payment processor, doesn't that become the second service component?
in reply to quick_snail

If a payment processor implemented this (or some other anonymous payment protocol), and customers paid them on their website instead of on the website of the company selling the phone number, yeah, it could make sense.

But that is not what is happening here: I clicked through on phreeli's website and they're loading Stripe js on their own site for credit cards and evidently using their own self-hosted thing for accepting a hilariously large number of cryptocurrencies (though all of the handful of common ones i tried yielded various errors rather than a payment address).

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to Arthur Besse

Stripejs is PCI compliant via tokenization. That is to say, your PII does not touch the merchant's site. The only thing the merchant sees is random placeholders.

So it sounds like this might work, then?

in reply to quick_snail

No. Unless Stripe has also implemented the ZK protocol in their whitepaper (narrator: they haven't) then whatever PCI stuff Stripe does is entirely unrelated to the privacy guarantees implied by phreeli's new protocol.
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

I used Calyx Institute for internet for a couple years while working online and living in a car. Solid company. Definitely gonna check out his out.
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

A few things. If you sign up, don’t then go use the number with things that associate it to your real identity like a bank account or credit card. Also, if you’ve already used your phone with a provider that has your real name, then it’s compromised because you could be linked by the IMEI. Get a fresh phone that you’ve never linked to your identity before. Also, don’t transfer your number to this service. Get a new number provided by them. Additionally, pay with cryptocurrency.

This is all if you want to stay truly anonymous with no traces back to you.

in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

Nick Merrill! This guy is awesome! I met him a few times back around 2014 when I sold him a bunch of old Dell server racks, presumably for use by his organization Calyx. This was a few years after his case against the FBI ended and he was able to talk freely about it. I'd been following the case previously so it was like meeting a personal hero, even though we were just manually humping Dell pizza boxes into his van. Legit guy, really cares.
in reply to infinitesunrise

in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

I am incredibly interested in this. I was considering a switch to a provider called cloaked wireless and so I'm going to have to do some research to see what the differences are.
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

It appears as though cloaked wireless might be a better deal.

Phreeli offers #25/mo for unlimited talk and text with zero gigs of data per month. They give you a free 2GB at signup, but once you are done with that, you have to pay $20 for 5GB. That $25 does include government extortion and fees.

Cloped wireless also offers a $25 per month plan, but does not include extortion and fees in the price, so it would be more like $32. They give you unlimited talk and text with 500 megabytes of high-speed data and unlimited low-speed data after that.

You can pay both of them with Monero, which is why I'm definitely going to switch, but so far, I think I'm going to be going with cloaked wireless instead. Because they offer a lot of the same guarantees, but for a lower price (after data is added to phreeli)

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

He’d sometimes come across anti-surveillance hard-liners determined to avoid giving any personal information to cellular carriers, who bought SIM cards with cash and signed up for prepaid plans with false names. Some even avoided cell service altogether, using phones they connected only to Wi-Fi.


So if this is already possible, what is his new company providing that's new?

What's the problem he's trying to solve?

in reply to quick_snail

Signing up with a fake name is not the same as not requiring a name to sign up.
in reply to Alas Poor Erinaceus

Wait, they ask for your details when setting up a phone in America?

I thought y'all lived in the land of the free!

The most I've ever been asked for to setup a phone is my bank details, and that's it, so they can setup direct debit for my contract

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to gwl

ironically that is the last thing i would want to give to a phone company
in reply to NewNewAugustEast

The ability to pay money for your contract?

Edit: they only ask for that if on Contract, if pay-as-you-go they ask for no details at all

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to gwl

I like the ability to pay, I just don't want to allow them access or even knowledge of my bank account.
in reply to NewNewAugustEast

A direct debit is a contractual agreement, they have zero access to the bank account, just the unique identification number and an automated system that requests money from that unique identifier once per month.

And that if there's no money in the account, they don't take you into credit, but instead just pause service until you pay

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to gwl

Depends on where you live of course. I always find it very disconcernibg linking bank accounts even I countries where it should be ok. The fuck ups are way too many for me. I don't want any of that.
in reply to gwl

These services usually have the ability to debit whatever your bill is, and then suddenly their system fucks up, or you get hacked and someone commits fraud, and before you know it a $5000 payment comes out of your account instead of the expected $30.00.

It's better to have that set up on a credit card in case something happens and you get a much better chance to dispute it.

This entry was edited (1 day ago)
in reply to NotMyOldRedditName

That's literally impossible, it's not how it works

At the very least it's literally impossible in UK and EU.

The system isn't actually taking any money from you at all, it's merely sending requests to the bank to ask for the money.

Some banks automatically will go "okay!", some need human confirmation for every transaction, ALL need human confirmation for any transactions over £200 (by law)

This entry was edited (21 hours ago)
in reply to gwl

That's definitely a UK/EU thing then. If you get a $5000 cellphone bill in NA because someone did long distance fraud and you have pre authorized debits set up, $5000 is coming out of your account in Canada and USA.

Edit: assuming you have 5k and or have overdraft on the account. Not sure what happens if you have less than 5k and no overdraft. Like I don't know if it'd take you to $0, or fail and charge you a insufficient fund fee.

This entry was edited (14 hours ago)
in reply to gwl

I had to give a fingerprint and a picture of me holding my passport, plus copy of the passport to get a Sim in Peru...plus a half hour of my life in the process
in reply to gwl

Every EU phone number has to be connected to an identifiable person or company.
in reply to gwl

Yes, by name. And that name has to be verified. They know everything else by default.
in reply to Schlemmy

They still think I live at my parents house even though I moved out 25 years ago, it's wildly inaccurate and easy to circumvent
This entry was edited (19 hours ago)