📺 How I Tricked Big Tech’s AI Pricing Algorithms to Save $8,793
Most of the things you interact with online are tracking your location, your device type, and your digital footprint to predict exactly how desperate you are to buy something. If the algorithm thinks you have money, or simply lack options, it alters the price in real-time.To prove how widespread "surveillance pricing" has become, I decided to see if I could outsmart it. This involved exploiting corporate registry loopholes to create a fake corporate entity, hiring an improv actor off Craigslist to establish a completely separate digital identity, and strapping a burner phone to a drone to make purchases from the airspace above the wealthiest gated community in Minnesota.
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davel
in reply to davel • • •I don’t think this guy has hacked surveillance pricing in ways that are practicably replicable, but his video has piqued my curiosity.
Edit to add: There doesn’t seem to be much in the way of evidence-based, practical advice currently, except to shop in physical stores and to comparison shop. kqed.org/news/12088157/surveil…
Surveillance Pricing Is Making Life More Expensive. Here’s How It Works and What You Can Do | KQED
www.kqed.orgropatrick
in reply to davel • • •Completely un-replicable. There's just no way my drone will reach Minnesota from Ireland.
I'll get my coat...
WhoIzDisIz
in reply to ropatrick • • •ropatrick
in reply to WhoIzDisIz • • •BeMoreCareful
in reply to davel • • •humble_boatsman
in reply to davel • • •ropatrick
in reply to humble_boatsman • • •davel
in reply to humble_boatsman • • •I’d also like to know. Sellers can know when you’re using a popular VPN service or have DeGoogled, but I don’t know how they may use that information. Perhaps they’ll try to punish you into submission by jacking prices to the moon or refusing to serve their website altogether. Reddit and some other sites already block VPNs.
There will never be a silver bullet, because this will be an endless arms race between sellers and savvy consumers.
goatmeal
in reply to humble_boatsman • • •The truth is no one except those inside the companies determining pricing really knows. And it can change at anytime if they find some new price discrimination data point to exploit. In the video they say it basically comes down to a desperation score.
My guess/sense at this moment is that it’s slightly better as the type of person willing to learn and explore the privacy options and settings and have a little extra income to put towards them will be aware of shopping alternatives and therefore have a lower desperation score
FineCoatMummy
in reply to humble_boatsman • • •Info no. Opinions yes!
It make sense to me, that if you lack a big digital footprint, they will give the highest price.
They always call these discounts, not extra fees. Put the tracker in your car, get cheaper car insurance! Use our club card, enjoy discounted groceries! They don't call it an extra cost if you don't. Even though it's mathematically the same! I think there may even be a legal difference. There is certainly a psychological difference between "you get charged extra" which nobody wants, and "get a discount". Yayyyy! Who doesn't enjoy a discount???
Also, they want to make the attractive choice, the one that gives them the most data. So they will crank up the pain for ppl who opt out of the surveilence.
There is a glimmer of hope tho! Basically NOBODY likes this suveilence pricing. There are 24 US states that have pending bills to ban the practice
... Show more...Info no. Opinions yes!
It make sense to me, that if you lack a big digital footprint, they will give the highest price.
They always call these discounts, not extra fees. Put the tracker in your car, get cheaper car insurance! Use our club card, enjoy discounted groceries! They don't call it an extra cost if you don't. Even though it's mathematically the same! I think there may even be a legal difference. There is certainly a psychological difference between "you get charged extra" which nobody wants, and "get a discount". Yayyyy! Who doesn't enjoy a discount???
Also, they want to make the attractive choice, the one that gives them the most data. So they will crank up the pain for ppl who opt out of the surveilence.
There is a glimmer of hope tho! Basically NOBODY likes this suveilence pricing. There are 24 US states that have pending bills to ban the practice. Maryland have passed theirs already. This is another case where writing to our reps makes a difference.
justaman123
in reply to FineCoatMummy • • •excursion22
in reply to humble_boatsman • • •Anecdotal, but I've been using Fauxx for a month or two and have noticed that ads I see (those few that manage to get through my blockers) are more generic, don't apply to my demographic, or are even in a language I don't speak.
I do practice basic data privacy, but I think that data poisoning also has a positive impact in obscuring your digital footprint. There will always be data from when I was less privacy-minded, so I feel it'll be more effective to both create a vacuum and fill that void with junk data.
GitHub - digital-grease/fauxx: Data poisoning for your everyday tracking
GitHubJayb151
in reply to excursion22 • • •Very interesting app, thanks for sharing!
I'm wondering if there is something similar for a pi hole so I could poison the data from my entire home.
excursion22
in reply to Jayb151 • • •GitHub - digital-grease/fauxx-desktop: Fauxx Desktop Companion: cross-device privacy command center (Rust headless core + Iced GUI).
GitHubisleepinahammock
in reply to humble_boatsman • • •At some point your lack of tracking itself becomes a data point. When someone shows up to a website who is a complete data ghost, the site has to figure out how to react to that. I could see companies saying, "well, if someone has no record, there's two possibilities. Either one, they're chronically homeless and are living completely off the grid. Or two, they're somehow who goes to great lengths to hide their tracks. In the former case, we can ignore them when setting our prices, as they can't afford our product anyway. In the latter case, we can charge them the maximum, as wealthy people can more afford to care about their privacy, and the person avoiding the tracking will probably assume we're actually giving them the better deal."
I imagine most such systems would be set up so that by default the maximum price is charged, and it's only lowered if tracking data is available to suggest a lower price is more likely to create a more profitable sale.
helpImTrappedOnline
in reply to davel • • •ropatrick
in reply to helpImTrappedOnline • • •Lumelore (She/her)
in reply to davel • • •I live in Minnesota and use GrapheneOS with IronFox and uBlock, NoScript, and Privacy Badger. My desktop is Debian with librewolf and the same extensions.
I decided to check Spam prices at various Targets on both my phone and desktop. I don't typically shop at Target, though I do have an account with them but I haven't logged in in years. I was also not logged in for the testing.
I tried at my local Target and a few around the cities and got the same prices regardless of being on mobile or desktop. Only difference was between stores with prices ranging between $4.69 and $5.59.
I did not physically go anywhere different during this test, nor did I use a VPN, so that may have been why I was getting the same prices on both devices. I also really don't know how much Target actually knows about me other than my IP and that I block stuff.
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SourDrink
in reply to Lumelore (She/her) • • •I recently learned about fingerprinting.
coveryourtracks.eff.org/
Cover Your Tracks
coveryourtracks.eff.orgLumelore (She/her)
in reply to SourDrink • • •_Nemo_
in reply to Lumelore (She/her) • • •It's a mixed bag really. Disabling JavaScript thwarts a lot of tracking efforts. But at the same time it puts you into a very small niche of users that, combined with other data points (user agent, IP location) makes you pretty fingerprintable.
Coming from a fellow JS Disabler, mind you.
NauticalNoodle
in reply to Lumelore (She/her) • • •Lumelore (She/her)
in reply to NauticalNoodle • • •trilobite
in reply to SourDrink • • •Lumelore (She/her)
in reply to trilobite • • •SaintNyx
in reply to Lumelore (She/her) • • •Same, I'm also in a bunch of deals and sales channels.. Sometimes you can find great things. Most differences in pricing comes from franchise/corporate pricing and slight price variations.. The price of milk, eggs and soda, etc will be slightly different in NC and CA because of cost of living, taxes, and competition.
Now would I be surprised if mega corporations started a system where they varied price based on what they think they can get out of each person? No I wouldn't. Do I think they're looking at all that big data while twirling their mustaches and rubbing their hands together? Yeah I do, greedy little pricks. I just don't think we're there yet.
0_o7
in reply to Lumelore (She/her) • • •Did you try checking while using data on your phone?
Using different network might give varying results.
Lumelore (She/her)
in reply to 0_o7 • • •I did but I didn't think about it until later so I didn't check as many stores. I tried it in a new incognito instance to avoid tracking cookies and etc, but I still got the same prices as with wifi. Although at that point they could have already identified me in some way, perhaps looking up only spam and blocking JS* makes me unique enough to identify.
* I did have to unblock the bare minimum needed to see the spam prices, so it's possible that could have allowed them to track me better as well.