Americans are holding onto devices longer than ever and it's costing the economy
The average American now holds onto their smartphone for 29 months, according to a recent survey by Reviews.org, and that cycle is getting longer. The average was around 22 months in 2016.While squeezing as much life out of your device as possible may save money in the short run, especially amid widespread fears about the strength of the consumer and job market, it might cost the economy in the long run, especially when device hoarding occurs at the level of corporations.
Americans are holding onto devices longer than ever and it's costing the economy
Americans are holding onto devices longer than ever before, and while it may be consumer smart, it comes at a cost to work productivity and the U.S. economy.Kevin Williams (CNBC)
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alyaza [they/she]
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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Assassassin
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •Oh no, we're being so selfish. Why not buy a 10% performance upgrade every two years for $1000 while wages stagnate? Oh, and carriers don't subsidize the cost at all anymore. They call it "free" then lock you into their most expensive plan so you spend thousands more on the plan than if you could have afforded to just buy the phone outright.
Fuck this out of touch reporting.
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cabbage
in reply to Assassassin • • •It's all over the place. In the middle of the article they suddenly talk about how software updates, modularity and repairability is important so that old devices can be made to keep up with contemporary demands, blaming the fact that this is an issue on big tech.
Then again, other parts are completely nuts.
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Assassassin
in reply to cabbage • • •Noticing some em dashes in there, so at least some of this is AI.
The parts about corporate infrastructure sound like a c suite dipshit trying to sound like they know what they're talking about.
"Our networks run slower because we have to be compatible with older devices!"
No, Judith, your IT department just keeps 2.4ghz wifi available for the old devices while also running 5ghz. Those devices stay slow, but it doesn't impact anyone else.
"Back in 2010, 100Mb internet was the fastest! No one could imagine gigabit becoming widely available! Stuff needs to be upgraded to handle it!"
Judy, tons of businesses were running gigabit in 2010, and common network gear has had gigabit ports for years. You have no idea what you're talking about.
James R Kirk
in reply to Assassassin • • •like this
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cabbage
in reply to Assassassin • • •I would have little respect for a journalist who didn't know how to use an em-dash, so I don't think that proves anything. But I agree that there is a lack of coherent thought throughout, though that's something humans are also fully capable of.
But yeah, fully agree. Never mind that network connection speed is not really the relevant bottleneck for most office situations these days. If Germans are less productive due to technology it's because they still use freaking fax machines over there, not because employees are stuck with five year old smartphones.
Powderhorn
in reply to cabbage • • •I -- to a certain extent -- know how to use an em-dash.
(Source: Former journalist.)
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cabbage
in reply to Powderhorn • • •like this
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Powderhorn
in reply to cabbage • • •anguo
in reply to Powderhorn • • •like this
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Powderhorn
in reply to anguo • • •like this
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protist
in reply to Assassassin • • •Powderhorn
in reply to protist • • •Powderhorn
in reply to Assassassin • • •Assassassin
in reply to Powderhorn • • •It's a literary tool that is so pervasive in LLM output and so unused in most writing that it's become a common indicator that LLMs may be involved. Considering the disjointed flow from subject to subject and shittyness of the article in general, I think that the odds are in my favor.
Feel free to continue shouting from your high horse though.
Powderhorn
in reply to Assassassin • • •I'm not sure whence your animosity comes. I've been a columnist since the '90s, and I assure you: Em-dashes are on the menu.
To claim proof of LLMs is to say it was never done until then. It most assuredly was.
Assassassin
in reply to Powderhorn • • •Powderhorn
in reply to Assassassin • • •Assassassin
in reply to Powderhorn • • •Powderhorn
in reply to Assassassin • • •Assassassin
in reply to Powderhorn • • •Powderhorn
in reply to Assassassin • • •Assassassin
in reply to Powderhorn • • •Unruffled [they/them]
in reply to Assassassin • • •Assassassin
in reply to Unruffled [they/them] • • •Unruffled [they/them]
in reply to Assassassin • • •Assassassin
in reply to Unruffled [they/them] • • •Not a problem, I have zero interest in dealing with beehaw again if your mods are allowed to instigate fights, then hide behind the rules after their feelings get hurt.
If you're not going to let people talk shit, fine. But if your own mods are going to get their comments removed too, maybe they shouldn't be mods. This is the exact type of behavior people hate about reddit.
Powderhorn
in reply to Assassassin • • •Assassassin
in reply to Powderhorn • • •Powderhorn
in reply to Assassassin • • •dylanmorgan
in reply to Assassassin • • •yessikg
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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Catoblepas
in reply to yessikg • • •Fr, my phone was over 3x as old when I traded it in, and it wasn’t even broken. I just knew I had to replace it in the next 4 years and didn’t want to get hit with tariffs.
2 years is a good start for people who trade in annually, though. Gotta start somewhere!
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Jessica
in reply to yessikg • • •yessikg likes this.
Destide
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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PonyOfWar
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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ByteSorcerer
in reply to PonyOfWar • • •I am typing this on a 5 year old Android phone. It has 128GB of memory and 8GB of RAM, very decent cameras, a beautiful OLED screen and a processor that is more than fast enough for everything I do with it. And even now the battery still lasts two days with normal use. It cost me about €300 at the time.
Unfortunately the Android version is getting so far behind that some apps are starting to get a few issues, so I have been checking out some black Friday deals for new phones, but they look very disappointing.
In the current market it seems like I'd have to pay about €500 to effectively just get a side-grade. All €300 offerings look like just a straight up downgrade in any way apart from the more recent android version.
So I think I'll hold on to this one a while longer. Hardware-wise it's still in perfect condition, and if software support really becomes an issue then perhaps I'll try out a custom ROM.
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boonhet
in reply to PonyOfWar • • •Tempus Fugit
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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Lvxferre [he/him]
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •parable by French economist Frédéric Bastiat
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Lvxferre [he/him] • • •Powderhorn
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •I got a new phone about a week ago. My old one was wildly overpowered for my use case, but ... I accidentally sat on it briefly, and the screen was never the same. I went from a Pixel 6 Pro to a 9a, and ... yeah, the screen seemed slightly smaller for a couple of days, but otherwise, it's faster than a device twice the price in 2021.
As with computers, we've hit "good enough" with phones for the most part. If you know why you need GPU cycles, that of course is another story, but for basic compute, we've nailed it. Hell, I'd still be running my i7-3770K -- a processor I bought in 2012 -- had my motherboard not died.
Things get shitty in terms of margins at the top of any technological S-curve.
I spent $500 on a phone that will get nearly seven years of updates, as I didn't buy it release day. Assuming I don't sit on it, that's a remaining 78 months at $6.41/month. My service is $15/month.
There's no money here anymore.
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GenderNeutralBro
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •Jesus Christ what a dumb take. But at least they didn't say that millennials are killing the cell phone industry. I guess that doesn't make for good clickbait anymore.
Reminds me if the parable of the broken window, in which French economist Frédéric Bastiat explains the painfully-obvious truth that breaking windows is generally a bad thing, even though it drums up business for the glass maker.
... Show more...Jesus Christ what a dumb take. But at least they didn't say that millennials are killing the cell phone industry. I guess that doesn't make for good clickbait anymore.
Reminds me if the parable of the broken window, in which French economist Frédéric Bastiat explains the painfully-obvious truth that breaking windows is generally a bad thing, even though it drums up business for the glass maker.
parable by French economist Frédéric Bastiat
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to GenderNeutralBro • • •I like the analogy with a surgeon or a firefighter.
Of course, the surgeon has to be available in case somebody needs an operation. But the best that can happen to society at large is that the surgeon is never needed because nobody's sick.
Same with firefighters. Of course they have to be there to fight fires, but it's better if houses don't start to burn down in the first place!
warm
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •What is to upgrade? Smartphones/phablets were always going to reach a peak, where the innovations that can be made are small. Screens look amazing, cameras are incredible, it's all at a point where phones do everything we want them to really well. Upgrades now are just iterative, battery improvements are welcome, improved camera sensors would be cool, but we dont need any of it, even faster SoCs, brighter or higher resolution screens are pointless now.
They can't really do much more, we dont need thinner, they are worse. Folding could be a potential avenue, but it's not there yet, they are far too fragile. There's going to have to be some new breakthrough tech to make a lot of people buy new phones, until then, they will have to keep trying to sell AI and some other bullshit features.
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User79185
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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Jrockwar
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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ctrl_alt_esc
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •Rooskie91
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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Powderhorn
in reply to Rooskie91 • • •like this
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Powderhorn
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •I don't like to comment twice, but holy fuck ... what the hell did I just read?
The framing here puts the Louvre to shame (they've currently got their own problems). Perhaps the purest perversion of capitalism is the idea that sufficient is never enough.
Look: Phones are commodities at this point. You only need a new one when the old one breaks. You don't call a plumber to replace your pipes every two years; it's generally because something shitty happens. Sometimes literally.
This feels like the pendulum swinging back, to the alarm of capital. I'm old enough to remember appliances being expected to last 20 years. Fridge, oven, TV, washer and dryer: All were expected to be single-time replacements over the course of a 30-year mortgage.
Hence growing up with a fridge in almond and a Kenmore set of laundry machines in mustard yellow. And a console Sony TV that made it through my entire console gaming time.
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Rhaedas
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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HubertManne
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to HubertManne • • •jobs are ableist. i don't see why people revere them so much.
HubertManne
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •mesa
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •Our devices don't change all that much to be honest. And the battery degregation is the only real reason to get a new phone. Some companies are even making it easy again to fix phones again.
Plus people can't afford 1000$ phones full stop.
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NecroParagon
in reply to mesa • • •Yeah the last time I bought a phone was around 2021-22 with the S22, and that was the last time I could actually afford to buy a phone like that. If I were to buy a phone now it would be a cheap phone, not a main model from a big brand. My S22 still works, so I'm gonna keep using it.
The battery is starting to show its age, but nothing I can't work around.
Jul (they/she)
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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SparroHawc
in reply to Jul (they/she) • • •like this
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Jul (they/she) • • •companies aren't innovating anymore because physical limits have been reached. Moore's law holds no longer true. Transistors can't be packed more tightly into space anymore while also making the computer chip cheaper at the same time.
observation on the growth of integrated circuit capacity
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)t3rmit3
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •Packing more transistors into the same space is not the same as "innovation". There's more innovation in late-90s-early-2000s handheld Windows CE 3.0 devices than there are between modern smartphone designs.
Take
these
for
example.
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Jul (they/she)
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •yessikg likes this.
Talaraine
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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twinnie
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •They also claim that businesses are trying to use old hardware for modern workloads. Apparently a six year old laptop can’t handle Outlook and Word.
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dylanmorgan
in reply to twinnie • • •like this
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4am
in reply to dylanmorgan • • •There is a lot of specialized shit that Excel does that calc isn’t up to par on.
You also can’t easily cripple calc with group policy (no pesky macros or external connections, you little babies! Copy and paste or get dead)
SteevyT
in reply to 4am • • •sanzky
in reply to dylanmorgan • • •like this
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ByteSorcerer
in reply to dylanmorgan • • •The main reason is tech debt and proprietary software. Most companies have decades of software infrastructure all built on Microsoft based systems. Transitioning all that stuff to Linux is a massive investment, especially taking into account the downtime it'll cause combined with the temporary decrease in productivity when everyone has to get trained and build up experience with the new platform.
And then you have to deal with proprietary software. A lot of niche corporate or industrial hardware only supports Windows. And you probably have to regularly interact with customers who use Windows and share files with you that can only be opened in Windows only proprietary software.
Linux also frequently struggles with a lot of weird driver issues and other weird quirks, causing an increased burden on the IT department.
Basically you're looking at a massive investment in the short term, for significantly reduced productivity in the long run. And all that mostly to save a bit of hardware costs, which are only a fraction of the operating costs for most companies. Just st
... Show more...The main reason is tech debt and proprietary software. Most companies have decades of software infrastructure all built on Microsoft based systems. Transitioning all that stuff to Linux is a massive investment, especially taking into account the downtime it'll cause combined with the temporary decrease in productivity when everyone has to get trained and build up experience with the new platform.
And then you have to deal with proprietary software. A lot of niche corporate or industrial hardware only supports Windows. And you probably have to regularly interact with customers who use Windows and share files with you that can only be opened in Windows only proprietary software.
Linux also frequently struggles with a lot of weird driver issues and other weird quirks, causing an increased burden on the IT department.
Basically you're looking at a massive investment in the short term, for significantly reduced productivity in the long run. And all that mostly to save a bit of hardware costs, which are only a fraction of the operating costs for most companies. Just sticking with Windows ends up being the more economical choice for most companies.
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to dylanmorgan • • •our university does. at least on most computers.
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4am
in reply to twinnie • • •To be fair, current laptops don’t handle Outlook and Word very well.
It’s probably not the hardware that is the issue.
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SeductiveTortoise
in reply to 4am • • •like this
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Korthrun
in reply to SeductiveTortoise • • •SeductiveTortoise
in reply to Korthrun • • •like this
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SaveTheTuaHawk
in reply to SeductiveTortoise • • •like this
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SteevyT
in reply to 4am • • •like this
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Deyis
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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in reply to Deyis • • •like this
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Deyis • • •Deyis
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •Chloé 🥕
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •have had my phone for close to 5 years now. it could use a battery replacement, but other than that it’s perfectly fine, so im gonna keep it for as long as i can
and if that makes tim cook cry… so be it lol
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SeductiveTortoise
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to SeductiveTortoise • • •I'd argue it's actually more the fault of the politicians than the CEOs, because the politicians cut taxes for the rich and set the rules of the game for companies to operate in; companies merely take opportunity of the exploits presented to them.
I'd also say that companies have a so called "fiduciary duty" to maximize shareholder values, as typically understood by economy classes. the way to change that behavior is to change the rules to which the companies have to keep. that means, instead of exploiting workers, they should pay taxes and benefit the community that way.
SeductiveTortoise
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •cheeseburger
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •Megaman_EXE
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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Powderhorn
in reply to Megaman_EXE • • •like this
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StinkyFingerItchyBum
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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spit_evil_olive_tips
in reply to StinkyFingerItchyBum • • •yeah...his previous article just before this one was "Americans are heating their homes with bitcoin this winter"
you're a couple years late to that hype cycle, Kevin.
Americans are heating their homes with bitcoin this winter
Kevin Williams (CNBC)like this
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Powderhorn
in reply to StinkyFingerItchyBum • • •TehPers
in reply to Powderhorn • • •yessikg likes this.
Powderhorn
in reply to TehPers • • •its_me_xiphos
in reply to StinkyFingerItchyBum • • •like this
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gwl
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •29 months is a long time?
I've had this one since 2019
runner_g
in reply to gwl • • •like this
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Scroll Responsibly
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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thesmokingman
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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teawrecks
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •For the love of god! Won't somebody think of the economy?!
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TheButtonJustSpins
in reply to teawrecks • • •like this
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Baguette
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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𝕸𝖔𝖘𝖘
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •RAM is so expensive that stores are selling it at market prices
Michael Crider (PCWorld)Pyr
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •29 months is too long??? I consider that the absolute minimum.
If my device doesn't last at least 36 months I look for a new company. I aim for at least 48 months.
I refuse to buy Samsung or Google devices anymore, since they definitely did not meet my 36 month criteria. They didn't even make it to 24. Google did at first with my Nexus 4 and I loved it but they shit the bed real quick after that.
its_me_xiphos
in reply to Pyr • • •SteevyT
in reply to Pyr • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to SteevyT • • •i had a samsung s4 mini (one of those really old phones, which are closer to a nokia brick than a modern smartphone IMHO) for years and it worked well. it lasted for 5+ years minimum. i bought a new samsung smartphone in 2022 (second hand though) and it shipped broken. randomly shut down, some kind of power issue. i never bothered to return it because it was rather cheap anyways and i had installed a custom OS on it at that point, which voids the warranty.
I bought a motorola afterwards but am only semi-happy with it. everything seems to work well with it, but i don't feel like it's a good phone. it feels kinda sleazy, somehow. i'm not sure whether it's only because of the color scheme it uses or sth else, but it doesn't feel alright. i'm still looking for a new phone.
Pyr
in reply to SteevyT • • •I spent $1000 on my Samsung (S6? I can't even remember anymore) and it's battery shit the bed after like 12 months and the charging port no longer worked unless the cord was exactly in a specific angle and pressure on order to recharge it. It was a pain in the ass and cheaper to buy a new phone than to fix it.
Bought a OnePlus 5 after that which lasted 4 years, them a OnePlus 9 which lasted another 4 years, and currently on year 2 of my OnePlus 13 with no issues.
Samsung could have had another 2-3 phones from me if they had decent quality but nah they prefer to design to fail.
SteevyT
in reply to Pyr • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Pyr • • •any recommendations for long-lasting phones?
for desktop computers it used to be acer (laptop) for me. i bought one in 2012 and it lasted close to 10 years, which i consider really long. even then, i didn't buy a new one because of hardware defects, but because the hardware specs were long out of date. i bought a new acer (laptop) in 2021 and it enshittified heavily, lasting only 18 months before i had to buy a new computer.
then i bought a thinkpad (laptop) and have been happy with it ever since. it's been running for at least 2-3 years by now and shows no signs of aging at all, even though it's already second-hand. great device.
its_me_xiphos
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to its_me_xiphos • • •The best way to grow the economy is to develop spaceflight. If you fly to mars, there's millions of acres of free real estate waiting for you. Time to construct and grow the market.
There's no more meaningful growth on Earth possible, because the physical limits have been reached. This effect has been predicted as far back as in 1970 with the report: The Limits To Growth. We're finally seeing the effects of that now.
scientific work by Meadows et al.
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)gerryflap
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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HobbitFoot
in reply to gerryflap • • •t3rmit3
in reply to HobbitFoot • • •Which is good. Markets are supposed to go up and down, and responsible businesses would have the capital reserves to weather the troughs, but no (public) companies are responsible anymore, and they waste any capital reserves on appeasing short-term shareholders who don't give a rat's ass about the long-term prospects of the company.
MangioneDontMiss
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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jherazob
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •Edit: Archive of the page
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Phoenixz
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •Smartphone companies are trying to push phones with planned-obsolescence on people sothat people buy new phones more frequently, and that's a bad thing for the consumers because they have to spend more money.
The best way to respond to that is if consumers prefer buying smartphones from companies who have produced long-lived smartphones in the past. That means if company A produces shitty, short-lived smartphones, people indeed buy a new smartphone after a short while but from another company B who is willing to develop better quality.
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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CanadaPlus
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •X to doubt.
About the "hurting the economy" part. Replacing more stuff = more economy is a well-known economics fallacy and they should know better.
parable by French economist Frédéric Bastiat
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Viking_Hippie
in reply to CanadaPlus • • •We stan a polite and precise, yet no less scathing for it, trash talker 😄❤️
That's pretty much the "check yourself before you wreck yourself" of his age
Kwakigra
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •like this
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whotookkarl
in reply to alyaza [they/she] • • •