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PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.

The “F” in FOSS doesn’t stand for fascism.

@element mastodon.matrix.org/@element/1…

#discord #matrix #element #police #fascism #FOSS

Element (@element@mastodon.matrix.org)

@amatecha@merveilles.town @matrix @liaizon@wake.st https://element.io/blog/the-online-safety-bill-an-attack-on-encryption gives an idea of our position. And no, there are no backdoors.
Matrix.org's Mastodon
#Element #matrix #foss #police #discord #fascism @Element
This entry was edited (4 days ago)

Damage Control Blog reshared this.

in reply to Aral Balkan

FKFTSH
mastodon - Link to source
FKFTSH
• •
ew, what the fuck? thank you for sharing. do you have any good ideas for alternatives?
in reply to FKFTSH

Aral Balkan
mastodon - Link to source
Aral Balkan
• •

@fuckfetish There used to be Mattermost but I just took a look at their site and it looks like they’ve gone full “military fuck yeah”.

This is what happens when people believe the “we care about human rights blah blah” bullshit of open source enterprise software corporations. The hint’s in “enterprise software” – that’s that they’re about, nothing else.

@FKFTSH
in reply to Aral Balkan

Bruno BEAUFILS
mastodon - Link to source
Bruno BEAUFILS
• •
@fuckfetish
Mattermost never was a serious alternative to me mainly because of their license model (shortly said opencore).
@FKFTSH
in reply to Aral Balkan

Proletarian Rage
mastodon - Link to source
Proletarian Rage
• •
and even worse. todon.nl/@prolrage/11367337958…

Proletarian Rage (@prolrage@todon.nl)

So @element@mastodon.matrix.org proudly declares that cooperated with the "alliance" that send us to be meat for the profits of war industry.
Proletarian Rage (Todon.nl)
in reply to Aral Balkan

[object Object]
mastodon - Link to source
[object Object]
• •
“no, there are no backdoors” is rich coming from the protocol whose previous end-to-end encryption implementation was effectively a no-op and whose current implementation leaks almost every bit of message metadata and is notoriously unreliable on top of it
in reply to Aral Balkan

Element
mastodon - Link to source
Element
• •
This is not the case. See element.io/en/legal/ethics for the public ethics policy of who we sell to.

Ethics at Element

Element is a major vendor of end-to-end encrypted communication solutions, empowering anyone to run their own secure (yet interoperable) communication service on their own terms.
element.io
in reply to Element

Aral Balkan
mastodon - Link to source
Aral Balkan
• •
Bro, this you? Don’t piss in my face and tell me it’s raining.
Element @element@mastodon.matrix.org Replying to @amatecha, @matrix, and @liaizon element.io/blog/the-online-saf... gives an idea of our position. And no, there are no backdoors. Yes, we fund Matrix dev by selling encrypted messaging to governments, which includes police: if you don't like that then please feel free to use a different app.
in reply to Aral Balkan

kravietz 🦇
akkoma - Link to source
kravietz 🦇
• •

What is exactly your problem here? Matrix is an encrypted messaging standard - as a maintainer of an Internet standard quite natural to sell consulting services to commercial clients, including your government. This is exactly the same case with HTTP or SMTP, which are widely used by governments and law enforcement, so why single out IM?

@element

@Element
in reply to kravietz 🦇

Aral Balkan
mastodon - Link to source
Aral Balkan
• •
@kravietz Yeah, the path to fascism is paved with one “quite natural” after another.
@kravietz 🦇
in reply to Aral Balkan

mpsi
mastodon - Link to source
mpsi
• •

Your position implies that the police is an enemy and that states shouldn't have any kind of law enforcement called "police". But can you pledge that you will never, ever call the police, nor expect any police intervention or involvement, no matter what?

States are human super-organisms and their existence is both necessary and unavoidable in our world. And states need a police force to be effective. @element

@Element
in reply to mpsi

Aral Balkan
mastodon - Link to source
Aral Balkan
• •
@mpsi Yes, abolish the police. I don’t see a problem with that. We don’t need a slave patrol derived institution that protects the interests of the uber rich. Imagine other possibilities, it’s not either/or.
@mpsi
in reply to Aral Balkan

mpsi
mastodon - Link to source
mpsi
• •
Imagine regaining effective, broadly inclusive democratic control where it was lost (or winning it where it was absent). Then the problem of slave-patrol mentality will be easy to solve. Otherwise, you will end up recreating the same thing under a new name. It's not the name that is the issue, it's the shape of the institution within societies that don't adhere to democratic standards.
in reply to Element

Magnus Ahltorp
mastodon - Link to source
Magnus Ahltorp
• •
Note how @element is not saying what ”is not the case”, while linking to a page clearly and explicitly stating that they’re selling to ”police”.
@Element
in reply to Aral Balkan

Karl Heinz Häsliprinz
mastodon - Link to source
Karl Heinz Häsliprinz
• •

@ahltorp They are funny.
- We don’t sell to organisations who are committing human rights abuses
then proceed to say they sell to:
- US Department of Defense, German Bundeswehr, UK Ministry of Defence

Like, hello? No human rights abuses ever by those three, nooooo, could never happen...

@Magnus Ahltorp
in reply to Element

[object Object]
mastodon - Link to source
[object Object]
• •

this is just a page that says “unable to decrypt message”

more seriously, instead of giving a generic “this is not the case” in response to aral’s post that included receipts of the partnerships you’ve entered, are you able to confirm in writing that you will not provide services or technology to ICE or its affiliates? if one of the American police departments you have partnered with has become affiliated with ICE, have you done anything to end that partnership?

in reply to [object Object]

[object Object]
mastodon - Link to source
[object Object]
• •
in the context that these are public institutions and that you’ve been very public in supporting them with partnerships and technology: are you able to show me a case where an organization you partnered with violated items #5 or #6 in the link you posted and forced you to end the partnership?
in reply to [object Object]

[object Object]
mastodon - Link to source
[object Object]
• •

come on guys, I gave you such a softball with this one. I didn’t even talk about how your stated ethics are neoliberal claptrap desperately searching for a non-paradoxical definition of a good cop who can never exist.

all you gotta do is tell us explicitly you won’t work with ICE and give us an example of the consequences for a public institution that violated your ethics policy.

yes you can share that exact information; you’re receiving public money for your services.

in reply to Aral Balkan

Svavar the Neurospicy
ActivityPub - Link to source
Svavar the Neurospicy
• •
I suppose in order to care about usability you have to care about people.
in reply to Aral Balkan

LukefromDC
mastodon - Link to source
LukefromDC
• •

For smaller groups Signal will work until enemy action knocks out the servers, the replacement servers, and the servers used by forks in response.

For PUBLISHED stuff (anyone can read it so encryption only protects login credentials) I am happy with Mastodon.

This entry was edited (4 days ago)
in reply to Aral Balkan

kaosk
mastodon - Link to source
kaosk
• •
this looks like a promising solution that might work for some people peergos.org/
I haven't fully research it but might test it soon.

Peergos

peergos.org
This entry was edited (4 days ago)
in reply to Aral Balkan

Misuse Case
mastodon - Link to source
Misuse Case
• •
@precariousmind Hahaha. So next time I see someone putting down Signal and boosting Matrix, I can say “signal isn’t run by fascist bootlickers.”
@Biorreactivo
in reply to Aral Balkan

🐦‍🔥nemo™🐦‍⬛ 🇺🇦🍉
mastodon - Link to source
🐦‍🔥nemo™🐦‍⬛ 🇺🇦🍉
• •

When I read your post I was like… 😬 this will generate a lot of discussions, yet still a good post Aral :)

Also one of the many reasons why I don't use it or promote it too…

&

anarc.at/blog/2022-06-17-matri…

anarc.at/blog/2022-06-17-matri…

telegra.ph/why-not-matrix-08-0…

element.io/blog/bundesmessenge…

Cool kids use Signal/Molly & Delta Chat

Rysiek posted this during that Signal foo two days ago

signal-contingency-plan.info/

blog.feld.me/posts/2025/03/del…

Sincerely


BundesMessenger shows Germany's embrace of open standard messaging

BundesMessenger is a modified version of Element which we’re working with BWI to develop and maintain.
Steve Loynes (Element Blog)
This entry was edited (3 days ago)
in reply to Aral Balkan

Dan Hatton
mastodon - Link to source
Dan Hatton
• •
What (if anything) is the use case for Discord/Matrix that can't be done at least as well with an appropriate combination of Signal/Threema and Mastodon?
in reply to Aral Balkan

spinnyspinlock
mastodon - Link to source
spinnyspinlock
• •

yikes

I saw people allude to it but wasn't sure it was this cut and dry.

in reply to Aral Balkan

schweinchen_gmbh
mastodon - Link to source
schweinchen_gmbh
• •
I am not sure, but after reading the linked message and havin' a quick look at the statement this reads like A.C.A.B at best. But more like policing is facism in its essence?
This entry was edited (2 days ago)
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