Still using #Telegram and not the much securer #Threema?
Maybe this might help you 2 reconsider:
#Telegram owner and former #Russian #Tech Oligarch,
#PavelDurov "... was arrested at the Le Bourget airport outside of Paris in August 2024 and faces numerous charges related to his social network, including allowing terrorism, drug trafficking, fraud, money laundering, and child abuse content on Telegram. The founder of the messaging app 👉faces up to 20 years in prison👈."
kyivindependent.com/telegram-c…
Telegram CEO Durov returns to Dubai amid French investigation
Pavel Durov, Telegram's Russian-born founder and CEO, said that the investigating judges allowed him to depart even though the probe is ongoing.Martin Fornusek (The Kyiv Independent)
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 reshared this.
the vril
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 reshared this.
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to the vril • • •#SurveillanceState #Surveillance #Technology #Meta
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(1/n)
True, however the most important criterion is that a replacement messenger app for #WhatsApp must have any chance at replacing #WhatsApp.
As a friend of mine phrased it here on Mastodon: "I have a hard time convincing my friend and family even to switch to [the known services,] #Signal or #Threema.
As...
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@thevril
#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(2/n)
... I've pointed out in an older thread 🧵 here and Cory @pluralistic in a now famous speech about #Enshittification, there's the severe lock-in effect, the negative aspects of the #NetworkEffect.
There are #XMPP and #Matrix, the "ancient" and "obvious" #FOSS choices. I've never used them but from what I've read, they were never able to gain much market share and are...
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(3/n)
@thevril @pluralistic
... still relegated to the "nerd niche," maybe unjustly so by now, IDK. (?)
mstdn.social/@distopico/111007…
As @kino put it succintly in that convo,
"👉At this point I'm not taking the open source == good (just coz) argument at face...
Distopico (@distopico@mstdn.social)
Mastodon 🐘HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@thevril @pluralistic @kino
#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(4/n)
....value anymore.👈 The future of #Matrix always seems somehow, em.. unconfirmed? An interesting project. I wonder where it will go. There's been a LOT of #VC [#VentureCapital] funding up to now, one might assume some return is expected at some point. Maybe not though. I've run #Jabber servers in the past,...
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@thevril @pluralistic @kino
#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(5/n)
... I still have one, but 👉federated #XMPP just somehow can't seem to take hold outside of its own niche" 👈.
If you wanted to dig down even further, you'd get to the point where you'd have to deal with #Protocols:
eattherich.club/@jmhorner/1109…
A French 🇫🇷 librarian association made an...
JM Horner ™️ (@jmhorner@eattherich.club)
ETRHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@thevril @pluralistic @kino
#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(6/n)
... extensive analysis of alternatives about 2 years ago, most of which I had never heard of, despite the extensive discussions we've had here several times here in the #Fediverse (of which I can only still find one convo:
mastodon.social/@HistoPol/1109…
There are but 2 alternatives of that French market research, #Olvid and #DataBag, that still made it...
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 (@HistoPol@mastodon.social)
MastodonHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@thevril @pluralistic @kino
#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(7/n)
... 👉our international discussion: 👈
pleroma.iselfhost.com/objects/…
In conclusion, as all services using #US servers like signal have been compromised since the #CloudAct went into force,
"Since #Signal's entire traffic runs over the clouds of #Amazon [#AWS,] #Google, #Microsoft & #Cloudflare.
👉All US services...
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(8/n)
... can pick up your meta data directly from there, thanks to the [#US] #CloudACT👈:... "
... my conclusion has been that, 👉despite the fact that, for years, it's encryption technology had been outdated...
schnaeppchenfuchs.com/news/thr…
... we should *still* rally around...
Schweizer Forscher decken Sicherheitslücken bei Threema auf
SchnaeppchenfuchsHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@thevril @pluralistic @kino
#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(9/n)
... pushing #Threema for the general public, as it is the "least of all evil." This, in particular, as #WhatsApp owner #Meta is the worst/most leaky offender of them all. 👈
The danger is not only immemt, but has been very real for many for some years, as the #ProjectAnalyticaSummit showed years after #Meta's #ProjectAnalyticaScandal in the wake...
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@thevril @pluralistic @kino
#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(10/n)
... of #Facebook's #CambridgeAnalyticaScandal:
... Show more...@thevril @pluralistic @kino
#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(10/n)
... of #Facebook's #CambridgeAnalyticaScandal:
mastodon.social/@HistoPol/1105…
No-one is safe from the FBI and the NSA anymore, as even during the #Biden Administration, illegal warrantless searches were frequent:
mastodon.social/@HistoPol/1140….
Even the #FourthEstate, not only in #LatinAmerica, but also the #US has been targeted;
mastodon.social/@HistoPol/1139…:
...
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 (@HistoPol@mastodon.social)
MastodonHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
2025-01-31 22:55:05
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@thevril @pluralistic @kino
#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(11/n)
...via@TheGuardian:
"👉#WhatsApp says journalists and civil society members were targets of #Israeli spyware,... #ParagonSolutions...1)
👉Nearly 100 journalists and other members of civil society👈 using WhatsApp, the popular messaging app owned by #Meta,...
👉It is way past midnight to stop using #Meta products 2). 👈
2)
Or other #BigTech apps.
//
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(12/n)
Founded with American VC, #Israeli spyware firm #ParagonSolution seems to be coming full circle: the #US VC company AE Industrial Partners seems to have acquired it recently:
mastodon.social/@HistoPol/1139…
...shortly after signing a $2m contract with the infamous #
... Show more...#SurveillanceState
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
(12/n)
Founded with American VC, #Israeli spyware firm #ParagonSolution seems to be coming full circle: the #US VC company AE Industrial Partners seems to have acquired it recently:
mastodon.social/@HistoPol/1139…
...shortly after signing a $2m contract with the infamous #ICE:
mastodon.social/@HistoPol/1139…
-> continued
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
2025-01-31 22:58:04
Kote Isaev
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to Kote Isaev • • •@koteisaev
#Telegram #Russia
I don't doubt your statement, as Dubrov apparently survived 60 trips to bis mirher country after becoming a persona non grata officially. So, he didnt get any tea of the Kremlin brand. 😉
Still, for me that is just circumstancial evidence and no proof that #Dubrov is a #KremlinOperative or asset.
Any proof for your claim?
Kote Isaev
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •Example of related news: unn.ua/en/news/telegram-cooper…
Telegram cooperates with Roskomnadzor and the FSB and stores user data indefinitely - Spravdi
Tatiana Salganik (UNN)HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 reshared this.
Ulli
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •It's optional to store an mobile number or/and email in #Threema
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 reshared this.
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to Ulli • • •@URH1
Thanks.
That's true, "optional."
For the people who "need" to be found that might be an option. I think that is rather unwise, though.
A phone number is stored in so many webshops, etc., there's hardly a better primary key for aggregating information about a person.
So, hands off the phone number option.
Selling each bit of information there is of users is a multi-bn $ global industry.
@thevril
Adrian Wüthrich 🛡️
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@URH1 @thevril look this
simplex.chat
SimpleX Chat: private and secure messenger without any user IDs (not even random)
simplex.chatHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 reshared this.
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to Adrian Wüthrich 🛡️ • • •@wuethrich
#Messenger #SimpleX
Thx. I like the privacy strategy:
"Other apps have user IDs: Signal, Matrix, Session, Briar, Jami, Cwtch, etc.
SimpleX does not, not even random numbers.
This radically improves your privacy. "
However:
"SimpleX Chat Ltd is a 👉 seed stage startup👈 with a lot of user growth in 2022-2023, and a lot of exciting technical and product problems to solve to grow faster.
We currently have 6 full-time people in the team.
We want to add 2 people ..."
@URH1 @thevril
Adrian Wüthrich 🛡️
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to Adrian Wüthrich 🛡️ • • •@wuethrich
#SurveillanceState #Surveillance #Technology #Meta
👉Which #Messenger To Replace the #DataKraken #WhatsApp with? 👈
#FightTechnofeudalism
#SimpleX
(1/2)
Wie schon immer das Häschen wusste: "Haddu Netzwerk, haddu Probleme."
Nein, das meinte ich nicht.
Was ich meinte, ist dass die Software für einen Massenrollout einfach zu neu ist und für den Einsatz in Organisationen fehlt einfach der Track Reckord.
Innovation ist bei der Software-...
@URH1 @thevril
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@wuethrich @URH1 @thevril
#Simplex
(2/3)
...(Lösungs-)Auswahl nur ein Kriterium.
Bei derart "systemkritischen" Anwendungen ist das "Lieferantenrisiko" m.E. mindestens genauso wichtig. Der #Startup hat es bislang "einfach nicht im Kreuz".
Außerdem ist natürlich der bisherige "Netzwerkeffekt" negativ zu bewerten (zu wenige Installationen).
Hinzu kommt, dass ich ein großes Länderrisiko sehe: seit dem #Brexit ging es mit dem #Datenschutz im #UK...
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •#Simplex
(3/3)
...gewaltig bergab. Gerichtliche Durchgriffsrechte hat man über die #GDPDR / #DSGVO nicht mehr.
Das alleine schon wäre, bei aller technischen Innovation, für mich schon ein k.o.-Kriterium.
Und warum sollte ich das für eine weitere nicht-FOSS-Lösung risikieren?
Außer der etwas zu Trump-freundlichen Einstellung eines Verwaltungsratsmitglieds & dem nicht-FOSS-Ansatz sehe ich bislang beim schon ziemlich verbreiteten #Threema keine gravierenden Nachteile.
Alexander Goeres 𒀯
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •durov is free again
manager magazin: https://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/tech/telegram-pawel-durow-ist-trotz-laufender-ermittlungen-aus-frankreich-ausgereist-a-281bef37-52c3-4f31-8bfa-b1a2da61e2ac (manager magazin)
Der Telegram-Gründer Pawel Durow ist zurück in Dubai, nachdem er vergangenes Jahr in Frankreich verhaftet worden war. Auf seiner Plattform zeigt er sich erleichtert und betont seine Unschuld.
Trotz anhaltender Ermittlungen: Frankreich erlaubt Ausreise des Telegram-Gründers
manager magazinHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
Unknown parent • • •#XMPP #Messenger #SocialMedia ownership
(1/n)
Thank you for the clarification. I did state (at least in the convo mentioned) that #XMPP is (but) a protocol.
The FOSS messenger(s) based on it, however, to my knowledge, are but niche apps for the technologically savvy.--No-one of my RL contacts has ever mentioned it (no a represantive sample, OFC.)
#Jabber, w/o having any further knowledge other than the superficial one...
@thevril @pluralistic
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@debacle @thevril @pluralistic
#XMPP #Messenger #SocialMedia ownership
(2/n)
...described, would, strategically speaking, be an excellent solution for society to re-own its #DigitalMarketSquare, or as US film maker and storyteller #MatthewCooke, phrased it:
👉 "Should Society Own its Social Media"?
IMHO: OFC!!!👈
IMO, it is the chief requisite of maintaining its individual freedom!
mastodon.social/@HistoPol/1102…
//
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 (@HistoPol@mastodon.social)
MastodonPositivDenken 🤯
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@debacle @thevril @pluralistic we need to own our means of communication. So we can guarantee it’s not being tampered with. And as such it can only be built on free and open standards.
#xmpp
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 reshared this.
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to PositivDenken 🤯 • • •@zeank
#FreedomOfSpeech #FreedomOfThought
#PreventThoughtCrime ideology
Agree 100%. IMO, we've already lost our freedom in the digital sphere and need to reclaim it.
#MathewCooke takes a similar stance:
americanoriginstories.buzzspro…
@debacle @thevril @pluralistic
contrapunctus ✊🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •Quicksy is a great #Jabber / #XMPP service (with Android and iOS clients), which is trivially easy to join. Uses phone numbers for registration.
quicksy.im/
@prav is a fork of Quicksy with only an Android client for now, but with message moderation and retraction support, a #cooperative structure, and better customer support.
prav.app/
Why Prav is Important
contrapunctus.codeberg.page/bl…
#Signal #WhatsApp #Telegram #Threema
1/
Prav
prav.appHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 reshared this.
the vril
Unknown parent • • •I like also Delta Chat
contrapunctus ✊🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •Both Prav and Quicksy accounts can be used with any XMPP client, and can talk to any XMPP server - no lock-in.
And those who don't like using phone numbers for registration can use other services like conversations.im and still talk to Quicksy and Prav users.
Also, snikket.im provides easy self-hosting, an invite system for easy onboarding, branded clients on most app stores, and paid hosting options.
2/
Conversations - Jabber/XMPP client for Android
conversations.imHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 reshared this.
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to contrapunctus ✊🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ • • •@contrapunctus
Thanks for sharing this!
@debacle @thevril @pluralistic @prav
Marc
in reply to contrapunctus ✊🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ • • •HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to Marc • • •@marcms
That might be on your end.
All 3 links work for me:
@contrapunctus @debacle @thevril @prav