I am talking o a reporter about this in a couple hours: https://regina.ctvnews.ca/from-outer-space-sask-farmers-baffled-after-discovering-strange-wreckage-in-field-1.6880353
This is about an hour away from my farm, so this'll be a fun conversation, and yet another great opportunity to tell a lot of people about what a huge problem we have with unregulated commercialization of orbit. (Also I just redid my slides for my public talk next week, this is going in!)
From outer space? Sask. farmers baffled after discovering strange wreckage in field
A family of fifth generation farmers from Ituna, Sask. are trying to find answers after discovering several strange objects lying on their land.Regina
MisterArix likes this.
reshared this
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •Interview done. I emailed Jonathan McDowell @planet4589 to ask if he had info on a possible reentry, and he immediately found it, and even had the ground track already calculated! Thank you for this meticulous tracking, Jonathan! (Because the satellite companies sure as shit aren't sharing this info!)
It was a Dragon Trunk from the Axios 3 mission, reentered on Feb 26. The reporter is going to send me contact info for the farmer who found it, so at least I can tell him what it is.
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •I'm now going to email everyone I know who works at CSA.
I'm *super* curious what is going to happen with this (probably nothing).
But if I can get SpaceX in trouble for dropping garbage on Canada from orbit, then I will use every power I have to make that happen!
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •I called the farmer who found the pieces! He is super mad that SpaceX is saying that this is safe, when clearly very large pieces are making it to the ground (and this kind of thing is TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE according to every launch and reentry regulating body. Wild.)
He said I could come take a look at the pieces after he's done seeding in a few days (because, Saskatchewan). He also really liked the idea of sending a bill to SpaceX for littering on his property. This could be a lot of fun!
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •HAHAHA they added my interview in to the redone version of the new story: https://regina.ctvnews.ca/from-outer-space-sask-farmers-baffled-after-discovering-strange-wreckage-in-field-1.6880353
And apparently it made national news(?!), because someone I'm on a committee with in Ontario said she saw me. I think it's time to go to bed (and hope for no more reentries...)
From outer space? Sask. farmers baffled after discovering strange wreckage in field
ReginaProf. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •I just got an email back from one of the CSA people I contacted yesterday, and they just sent me SpaceX's media inquiry email. Given than literally every article that talks about SpaceX has "SpaceX did not respond to a request for comment" in it, this is...less than helpful 🙄
Edit to add: I just noticed it says "UNCLASSIFIED" in all caps at the top of the email, which is...hilarious? Man this situation just keeps getting weirder. I hope some journalists pick up on this.
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •Oh my gosh it just keeps coming. So, I reached out to a colleague who I trust and respect on space law issues, asking them what actually the law says about space junk on someone's farm in another country. And I fully expected to hear something like "oh yes, the Outer Space Treaty says this and this" with clear directions.
Instead, they asked for the farmer's contact info so THEY COULD TRY TO BUY THE SPACE JUNK
That's the hardest I've laughed in a really long time. Wow.
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •Well, I again didn't get a big giant thing done that I've been procrastinating on for months because it sucks. But I did learn a hell of a lot about space law and I have a feeling I will have zillions of news interview in the next few days, which is great! I hope this gets lots of people talking about unregulated commercialization of orbit!
Quitting work stuff for the day. Time for goats, auroras, and wondering if my trip to Toronto will actually happen or if space weather will cancel it...
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •ok jumping back into this thread because hahahaha I can't believe everything that's happening.
I found out during a live radio interview this morning that someone claiming to be from SpaceX did indeed call the farmer, and ask to get the space junk back from him. But it sounds like whoever contacted him has absolutely no idea how rural Saskatchewan works. There is no FedEx. There are no addresses. This is going to be harder to recover than they thought.
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •I talked to a couple of space law experts to find out what to even advise the farmer on this. I had sort of thought that since it's in another country and it fell on private property, it belongs to the property owner.
But it is much more complicated than that, because of the Outer Space Treaty.
What *should* have happened is Global Affairs Canada should have contacted the US State Department, who should have contacted SpaceX.
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •But I think what actually happened was someone somewhere else in the Canadian gov't saw a news interview and told SpaceX.
The space law experts I talked to agreed that since SpaceX has now asked for it (assuming it *is* SpaceX), the farmer has to surrender it. BUT he should ask for compensation.
If there had been damage, the US gov't would have had to compensate the Canadian gov't, but because it's a private company, and no damage happened, compensation is voluntary
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •I chatted with the farmer again, and he's doing everything right! He asked for proof that the person was from SpaceX. He asked them to donate to the local skating rink. He's being careful at every step. He's doing a great job of dealing with a totally bizarre situation that very few people in the world have ever had to deal with.
I'll be heading up to visit him and see the junk over the weekend once I'm back in Sask, he seemed pretty confident that he'd still be in possession of it.
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •I have so many interview requests that I'm actually starting to lose track of them at this point...
But I'm really glad there is so much interest. This is terrifying stuff: SpaceX and other companies are dumping stuff on the ground that could very easily kill people. Countries need to enforce the rules that already exist, and the regulations NEED to be updated to take into account how terrifyingly many re-entries are happening now.
volkris
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •it’s all about balance, looking for the balance between risk mitigation vs advancement of public interests.
Like, everything we do can kill people. Do we not do anything? Ever? No, we sit down and work out risks, reasonable strategies for addressing the risk, and then we do our best to get that balance right.
I don’t find this terrifying at all. It seems like the reasonable and acceptable outcome, with all of the oversight and risk management that’s in place.
We can’t just live in fear.
Prof. Sam Lawler
Unknown parent • • •I learned that SpaceX is only going to pay the farmer $5,000 for the space junk that could have killed him. I'm glad they're paying, but that's piddly for a megacorporation owned by an awful billionaire that dumped hazardous garbage on his property.
He said he passed along SpaceX's contact info to others nearby who he thinks may have also found pieces of junk (he hinted that someone nearby may possibly have found an even bigger piece than his).
Prof. Sam Lawler
Unknown parent • • •Legally, he's supposed to turn over the space junk to the owners, and he doesn't want to fight SpaceX, especially if they are being polite and provide a healthy donation to the Ituna skating rink as he requested.
But it's totally unclear if Canada has any laws on the books that could be actually used to compel a Canadian citizen to hand over a piece of space junk to a company in another country. So, from a space law standpoint, it would be a lot more "fun" if he refused. What would happen?
Prof. Sam Lawler
Unknown parent • • •So...this saga is ongoing, but here's the latest. I met the farmer on Saturday. He is incredibly nice, and his memory and deductive reasoning powers are impressive! It was really fun to chat and learn from him all the information he pieced together on his own, just from studying the piece of space junk. Farmers = engineers!
He also showed me the official lawyer-y-but-polite email he got from SpaceX. They said they will come pick up the piece from him, and they will compensate him. Good!
Prof. Sam Lawler
Unknown parent • • •The only time I go to my campus office in the summer is for media interviews about space junk, apparently?
(Also, today I learned CTV journalists do it all themselves! This impressive journalist set up the camera shots and did all the filming while also interviewing me. Wow.)
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •After meeting him, I drove around the area - if that big a piece (it's 100 pounds and 4 feet by 6 feet) made it to the ground intact, then smaller pieces definitely did too. We didn't find anything, of course. It's a HUGE area to search.
But I got a piece of paper and wrote "Did you find space junk? Call me!" with my name and number and left it on the small town co-op bulletin board, and I talked to the small town newspaper journalist who first wrote about it.
So the saga will continue...
Prof. Sam Lawler
Unknown parent • • •One aspect of this story I haven't really let myself get angry about until just now: this particular SpaceX Crew Dragon trunk that dropped garbage on Sask. was from the Axiom 3 "private astronaut mission."
"Private astronaut" = billionaire space tourist.
Billionaires own companies that other billionaires pay for joy rides that drop potentially lethal garbage on us from orbit. This is fine.
I already knew billionaires are horrible, but this particular situation really lays it out starkly.
Prof. Sam Lawler
Unknown parent • • •My MP didn't call me back, CSA says local law enforcement should deal with it, and I even called the "Saskatchewan Poachers and Polluters" hotline and the Ministry of Environment yesterday and neither of them wanted to touch this.... so I still have no idea what people are supposed to do when they find space junk.
It's going to become a LOT more common to find space junk, and I sure hope the answer isn't "just wait for SpaceX to track you down," because that seems to be the answer right now.
Prof. Sam Lawler
Unknown parent • • •He said his whole payment will go to the Ituna skating rink. He was hoping for more, but I guess this is all he's going to get from a company owned by a fucking BILLIONAIRE.
While there are many things I'd rather raise money for, I'm quite tempted to start a fundraiser for the Ituna skating rink, just to show that communties are way better than billionaires... hmmm I'll have to think more about this.
Prof. Sam Lawler
Unknown parent • • •Turns out I've had a giant misunderstanding with someone who's been talking about going out to find pieces and map out the debris field... I thought they were planning to come here, but they were actually asking me to price out my "university research services" doing the fieldwork. My university doesn't have magical "research services" to do fieldwork, and I'm the only astronomer, so it would just be ME.
That is...a lot to ask me to do, especially since I'm not trained for this...sigh.
Prof. Sam Lawler
in reply to Prof. Sam Lawler • • •I talked to Barry again this morning. He wasn't able to convince SpaceX to give him any more than $5k, but he convinced them to give $5k per piece, and he+family found 3. They are supposedly coming to pick it up from him early next week (but that's what he said last weekend when I talked to him, so who knows... I'd imagine this is a cross-border logistical nightmare and I'm glad SpaceX has to deal with that).
Apparently SpaceX made him write them an official invoice??
Prof. Sam Lawler
Unknown parent • • •WELL I just looked at the cute little prairie newsletter in my inbox from The Flatlander https://theflatlander.ca/ and uh... that's me in the picture for story number 2, despite me not having been interviewed by them.
Time for bed!
Local stories that shape our lives in Saskatchewan and Manitoba.
The FlatlanderProf. Sam Lawler
Unknown parent • • •Got an email from my MP's office saying they'll forward the email on to the actual MP to read. So... maybe I'll have to talk to him today haha.
Now I'm trying to figure out an email chain with someone in the Canadian gov't who actually wants to come out here and look for debris, but they email only in bureaucrat-ese so I'm not even sure exactly what they're asking or when they might come or who to ask for help... This could be very interesting, or really frustrating and weird, not sure...