Proton getting big encourages centralization
OG title: We need to talk... about the Proton ecosystem
Ecosystem is a trap. It lures you in with the promise of convenience, only to lock you inside a walled garden. Like Google and Apple. They start with a good product, but then force you to use the whole suite to get the full experience. This is dangerous.
Ecosystems are concentrating all of your data and your digital life in the hands of a single entity. An entity that grows so large and powerful that it will start making compromises against your rights only to find more ways to profit or protect their business. The larger the ecosystem, the bigger data harvester it becomes. It becomes a bigger target for hackers and the more products it offers the more data it has to give to the surveillance state.
We know that the big tech does this, because their only moral value is the shareholder value.
[4]But when a private company starts quacking like a duck in the steps of the big tech, it should worry us the same way. That company is Proton. The maker of the most renowned privacy products that have always been meant as ethical alternatives to the big tech.
Today, Proton resembles more and more the ecosystems of Google and Apple than it does its noble origins of fighting the big tech. This is a problem. It’s a problem for your privacy and it’s a problem for the whole community. But you probably never of heard of this perspective, because none of this is talked about enough. There is a reason for this.
You see, most content on Proton you’ll find, is coming from sources that are sponsored or affiliated with Proton. And I know how lucrative Proton’s deals are, because Proton even tried to pay me. Of course, I refused their offer, because taking their money would incentivize me not to recommend against Proton products. I am uniquely positioned to give you a nuanced critique of Proton and how to solve this problem.
Some good points to be said. I find the overall argument a bit weak as it is mainly one of user erorr of sorts. Btw THO has some pretty good back log of videos on privacy; check out their stuff on burners phones and anonymizing yourself at a protest.
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vatlark
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •InternetCitizen2
in reply to vatlark • • •Alas Poor Erinaceus
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •9488fcea02a9
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •vatlark
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •I'm no power user. The VPN client works fine on Ubuntu. For everything else on Ubuntu I use a web browser.
Some of the proton apps are on f-droid.
InternetCitizen2
in reply to vatlark • • •I guess I just care about the desktop app and such. Perhaps I should re-evaluate if I still care.
Ephemeral
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •MagnificentSteiner
in reply to Ephemeral • • •recklessengagement
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •Konstant
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •Ulrich
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •youmaynotknow
in reply to Ulrich • • •I paid for 2 years of Proton family to Jumpstart getting my family away from Google, with a domain for the family. Having said that, there is nothing 'reasonable' about their prices. Additionally, not too long ago they started nickle and diming, which is just a different type of enshittification (agreed that nothing as bad a Google, Microsoft or apple, but still).
Now that my family is 'mostly' off of Google, I'm already showing them how to sync all their stuff to my server while I handle the 3-2-1 backup. It's a tortuous road, but we'll worth it. By the time the 2 years are up, all I'll have to do is move to Mullvad for VPN, Tuta (or something else, haven't decided yet) for email, and we all use Bitwarden in my Vaultwarden server for Password Manager already
Proton is very good so far, still trustworthy for privacy, but their colors are slowly starting to show, so I'm sure they'll eventually bend to the live for money over the reasons they claim we're why they started Proton in the first place.
Fizz
in reply to youmaynotknow • • •youmaynotknow
in reply to Fizz • • •utopiah
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •Agree but nobody forces you to use anything except ProtonMail or ProtonVPN. In fact I have a visionary account and I mostly just use ProtonMail. I do use ProtonVPN but I also have WireGuard. Also my ProtonMail addresses are behind domains I host. If tomorrow I decide to switch away from Proton, I can.
So... sure Proton is not perfect and centralization is bad but IMHO it's like saying Firefox is imperfect so it's fine to use Chrome or Chromium browsers. Imperfect alternatives to BigTech and surveillance capitalism is better than relying on the things you hate until something "perfect" never comes along.
dontsayaword
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •AnotherUsername
in reply to dontsayaword • • •Lor
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •fubbernuckin
in reply to Lor • • •FoundFootFootage78
in reply to Lor • • •Maroon
in reply to Lor • • •I hope you don't mins me asking for more details on this. Is this like Tuta where you can buy a domain and direct it to Tuta. So in essense you're using Tuta's servers, but just using your own domain?
Or have you gone completely self-host Lome hosting your own mail server, etc.
peskypry
in reply to Lor • • •Since when did it become unethical to express an individual's opinion? Andy (Proton CEO) is just like any other human. He has his own flaws and opinions. What you need to look into is whether Proton products are secure and private as they claim.
Unlike Sam Altman, who made OpenAI a for‑profit company from a non‑profit, Andy turned Proton into a non‑profit from a for‑profit. I don't see many people appreciating that. But when someone expresses a political opinion, they're canceled for life. I wish cancel culture would die away.
peskypry
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •chloroken
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •CatZoomies
in reply to chloroken • • •Doubt.
Proton export CLI utility takes 13 minutes.
randomblock1
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •FG_3479
in reply to randomblock1 • • •Auli
in reply to FG_3479 • • •eldavi
in reply to FG_3479 • • •Nelots
in reply to eldavi • • •Andy Yen (the CEO) supported one single choice trump made, because he felt it would be good for little tech and bad for big tech. He never stated he supported trump or even the republican party as a whole. The whole thing got blown out of the water by redditors attacking the comment with no regard to context because every single thing a republican (and especially trump) does has to be evil, even if it's good for us. Ignoring the fact that Proton has publicly criticized trump on a number of occasions and donates millions to liberal organizations.
Here's a great analysis made with sources and reasoning provided throughout the whole thing, with the author ultimately concluding that they believe Andy is far more likely to be a liberal than pro-trump or MAGA. Again, with actual sources and reasoning rather than one context-less tweet.
Coleslaw4145
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •I stepped away from Proton as soon as they started pushing more than just mail and VPN and started bombarding me with prompts to subscribe to one of their plans.
I dont appreciate things like my protonmail app icon being changed to say "Black Friday" on it thank you very much.
freedickpics
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •Matt
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •melfie
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •I have a full plan that expires this year and not sure if I’ll renew. Mail and VPN are good, but the other services I could live without or self-host.
Drive is especially disappointing with the dismal Linux support and I’ve run into issues even on better supported platforms. I technically have 3 TB of storage I’m supposed to be able to use and I wanted to use it for server backups, but they don’t have an object storage API. The rclone support for their private API didn’t work worth a damn, so I ended up also paying for iDrive e2. Not really sure what the value is of their encrypted drive when I can just use Restic with any cloud storage provider.
locahosr443
in reply to InternetCitizen2 • • •