Yes, the ex-publishers have essentially reversed the net flow of information: it used to flow from them to us, through the journals. Now we provide them with our data and that's where the real gold is found:
"Academic publishers’ most valuable asset used to be their journals. Now, it’s the data they collect from researchers and then sell."
ukrant.nl/magazine/elseviers-s…
#publishing #openaccess #openscience #academicchatter
Elsevier’s stranglehold on academia: How publishers get rich off our data
Academic publishers get rich collecting and then selling data from researchers. That is extremely concerning, say UG researchers.UKrant.nl
Koen Hufkens, PhD
in reply to Björn Brembs • • •Been warning about this for over a decade. Recently had to dig out an old blog post in this context. Most in academia are still oblivious to this fact.
khufkens.com/posts/publons-pee…
On reviewing, publons and privacy – Morning musings
Morning musingsBjörn Brembs
in reply to Koen Hufkens, PhD • • •@koen_hufkens
So true! I up your post from 2017 with one of mine from 2013:
blogarchive.brembs.net/comment…
🤣
It looks like assuming the worst from these corporations is a really good way to predict the future. 😆
News / Comments / What will Elsevier do with Mendeley's usage data? - blogarchive.brembs.blog
blogarchive.brembs.netKoen Hufkens, PhD
in reply to Björn Brembs • • •I did try to change the system in 2012 though, but failed.
elsevier.com/en-in/connect/pee…
Peer Review Challenge
ElsevierKoen Hufkens, PhD
in reply to Koen Hufkens, PhD • • •This was basically what Hypothes.is does. Linking annotations to documents, and gathering those for peer-review reports. The AGU journals now use this. But I've not come across any others.
web.hypothes.is/
Collaborate & Annotate with Hypothesis | Online Annotation Tool
HypothesisBjörn Brembs
in reply to Koen Hufkens, PhD • • •@koen_hufkens
None I know use anything like this! It should be implemented in a way such that I as an author can, e.g., just click on "accept" if I want to write what the reviewer suggested.
Koen Hufkens, PhD
in reply to Björn Brembs • • •Björn Brembs
in reply to Koen Hufkens, PhD • • •@koen_hufkens
There is now a project at Imperial in the UK that is running an implementation with similar functionality. We just need to get rid of journals at it'll be one of the first things the replacement will have...
RoedigerRG
in reply to Björn Brembs • • •Björn Brembs
in reply to RoedigerRG • • •@RoedigerRG @koen_hufkens
WRT #Zotero and #OpenAlex, yes, absolutely, I'd say. However, we already have many tens of thousands of peer-reviewed journals (check OpenAlex for number of sources!). I don't think more journals will give us a solution.
Instead, we have proposed to replace journals with a modern, federated infrastructure:
royalsocietypublishing.org/doi…
This is also what the EU science ministers have concluded:
consilium.europa.eu/en/press/p…
and the cOAlition S funders:
coalition-s.org/towards-respon…
Towards Responsible Publishing
www.coalition-s.orgNicolas Barreyre
in reply to Björn Brembs • • •@RoedigerRG @koen_hufkens
Once again, a proposal that takes no consideration whatsoever for the vital intellectual role journals play in the humanities and social sciences. Seeking to bureaucratically impose (bad) solutions to these disciplines is not a very democratic move.
Björn Brembs
in reply to Nicolas Barreyre • • •@NBarreyre @RoedigerRG @koen_hufkens
Not sure I understand. Please point out where we write that we wish to impose our proposal on everyone and where we forbid (as if we even could!) anybody from investing more than necessary into their part of the system?
Nicolas Barreyre
in reply to Björn Brembs • • •Björn Brembs
in reply to Nicolas Barreyre • • •@NBarreyre @RoedigerRG @koen_hufkens
No, of course, we propose to replace parasitic corporations with a scholar-led alternative. Do you propose we stayed with the parasites instead?
The argument (already long before this article) is commonly that most of the money goes to parasites and most parasites publish journals in STEM fields. So some of the money we save there can go back to fields that have historically been drained by the parasites indirectly: because of shrinking budgets.
Nicolas Barreyre
in reply to Björn Brembs • • •@RoedigerRG @koen_hufkens
Ok. Stepping back. I am all for getting rid of the parasite for-profit publishers. They are a major problem. What I reacted to is the proposal, to quote you, « to replace journals with other systems », because in the social and human sciences journals do more than just peer-review and publish, and they play an important intellectual role. Maybe they could do that again in the experimental sciences but I have no idea.
Björn Brembs
in reply to Nicolas Barreyre • • •@NBarreyre @RoedigerRG @koen_hufkens
Good that we agree on getting rid of the parasites 👍 Common gorund!
In our companion paper:
royalsocietypublishing.org/doi…
we describe (maybe more like 'suggest', lol) how modern social technologies could be leveraged much more effectively than journals to support some of the other functions jhournals have served historically.
Nicolas Barreyre
in reply to Björn Brembs • • •Sorry to butt in earlier. The SHS are a dominated part of academia, and whatever happens in STEM impacts us directly, and we are rarely part of the conversation.
Björn Brembs
in reply to Nicolas Barreyre • • •@NBarreyre @RoedigerRG @koen_hufkens
I'm a biologist based in Germany and this article was co-written by a chemist from the UK, a geoscientist from the US and a humanities scholar from Canada 😜
The roole model we use as an example in the paper is @hcommons.social Humanities Commons who to us seem really an examplar of how we think all fields of academia ought to approach social technologies.
Björn Brembs
in reply to Björn Brembs • • •@NBarreyre @RoedigerRG @koen_hufkens @hcommons.social
From the ten authors on the "replacing journals" article, about ojne third are humanities scholars.
Nicolas Barreyre
in reply to Björn Brembs • • •Well, so it is. I’ve had that fight with (humanities) colleagues here in France during the open access debates. It’s astonishing how easily many authors can forget about all the intellectual labor done by their colleagues who work on editorial boards on the articles they eventually publish. It’s a form of invisibilization of collective labor and input that has always troubled me in today’s academia.
Björn Brembs
in reply to Nicolas Barreyre • • •@NBarreyre @RoedigerRG @koen_hufkens @hcommons.social
Last year, I talked with @tdverstynen about the labor that goes into humanities publishing. I don't see any obstacles for the humanities, only opportrunities. E.g., wouldn't the people doing all this labor, be happy to work with a functional infrastructure that makes their work easier? You know, so they don't have to struggle on remembering which button to klick or where to submit what, but actually focus on their job?
Koen Hufkens, PhD
in reply to Björn Brembs • • •Ulrike Hahn
in reply to Koen Hufkens, PhD • • •Ulrike Hahn
in reply to Ulrike Hahn • • •Koen Hufkens, PhD
in reply to Ulrike Hahn • • •Ulrike Hahn
in reply to Koen Hufkens, PhD • • •Koen Hufkens, PhD
in reply to Ulrike Hahn • • •Koen Hufkens, PhD
in reply to Koen Hufkens, PhD • • •Ulrike Hahn
in reply to Koen Hufkens, PhD • • •Ulrike Hahn
in reply to Ulrike Hahn • • •Björn Brembs
in reply to Ulrike Hahn • • •@UlrikeHahn @koen_hufkens @NBarreyre @RoedigerRG @hcommons.social @tdverstynen @elduvelle
Most areas in my research fields need extramural funding just to keep the lights in the lab on, so while the UK is indeed somewhat special with their national assessment exercises, in manby places PIs can justify their GlamHumping by pointing to the people in their labs.
Björn Brembs
in reply to Björn Brembs • • •@UlrikeHahn @koen_hufkens @NBarreyre @RoedigerRG @hcommons.social @tdverstynen @elduvelle
WRT the UK REF specifically, I vividly remember the first year REF explicitly banning journal rank from being used for evaluations in 2015:
svpow.com/2015/07/10/how-can-n…
By @mike
At the time, this demonstrated to me why the journals really must be phased out. Today, I look at Germany and see the exact same thing:
bjoern.brembs.net/2024/11/rese…
#assessmentreform #researchassessment
Research assessment: new panels, new luck?
bjoern.brembs.blog