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Not only are they Chromium based and thus IMO shouldn't be included if vanilla Chromium is in the list, but they also have their weird crypto stuff and the CEO has A LOT of problematic views.
I'm not really fond of including it due to the founders homophobic past.
The argument of not including it because it's Chromium falls short in my opinion as DuckDuckGo and Privacy Browser are included, which on Android use System WebView (likely Chrome WebView). WebView is a lot less secure then a Chromium based browser.
I believe Firefox based browsers are also less secure on Android due to not having Per-Site Process Isolation.
@aral@ar.al > this is what Brave is actually about: basicattentiontoken.org
Why didn't you lead with this?
If the software itself respects the people using it, and does its job well, who cares if someone in charge has dopey opinions about some things? I mean, everyone has dopey opinions about something ....
I'm vegan. If I boycotted all software written by corpse eaters, I might feel righteous and pure, but I wouldn't be using computers much ....
@strypey @solstice So no qualms about doing business with Nazis, then? Or do you actually have a line somewhere and it just happens to not be homophobia?
@aral @solstice It might make you sleep better at night to believe your personal morals beliefs are based on universal moral laws. But I'm sorry, they're not (see: meaningness.com/fixation-and-d…).
As I said, I think homophobia is dopey. But comparing it to a fascist regime that caused the deaths of millions of people is hyperbolic in the extreme. Just like the people demanding Nuremberg trials, to punish politicians for their pandemic measures.
@strypey @solstice I didn’t compare it. I asked if you had a line. And if that line isn’t homophobia, what is it. But you know what, I’m so not in the mood to argue minutiae with you right now. With everything that’s going on, you thought: “Hey, here’s my hill. Why Aral called out the homophobia instead of the cryptocurrency play.” Ok, cool, you win. Goodbye.
Brave is a valid option because it is one of the few (or only) open source chromium browsers that has a built in ad/content-blocker, uses proper anti-fingerprinting protections, has extra privacy features, and benefits from the chromium security. I underastand the concerns regarding the crypto crap, but those can be turned off. That being said it is a valid option, especially for newbies.
Here's some changes It'd suggest: - Add @organicmaps to the gmaps alternatives. it's by far the easiest osm based maps app - Add @ente auth for google auth alternatives. it's much more feature rich and it's foss - add @kagihq to the search engines. They're privacy respecting * one small note is that they do utilize google as one of it's search indexes that it uses, so you'd still be giving google some money technically (had to mention it)
Why are you recommending Authy, a very shitty service, but not Organic Maps and Obtainium for .apk updates?
For browsers there is Mulch and Mull from DivestOS, which are forks of Chromium and Firefox respectively or Brave. Either of which would be much better than Fennec, Privacy Browser, or Firefox from a privacy or security perspective.
Because most web developers don't seem to build websites with Firefox users in mind, there are a good number of websites that function poorly in Firefox.
So, for the users seeking an alternative that don't want to use Firefox, I'd say include an open source Chromium-based browser. There are none that are convenient, except Brave and Chromium itself. But Chromium would be defeating the purpose.
Unfortunately, the majority of people care more about convenience than anything else.
@adam_wysokinski /e/OS is an extraordinarily insecure operating system massively rolling back security even more than LineageOS already does. It completely destroys the security model and is always at least a year behind on providing full privacy/security patches. CalyxOS is problematic for security, LineageOS is far more problematic but /e/OS is an extreme form of that comparable to you recommending people use Windows 8 because it's not from Google.
Some recommendations: - Add ente auth from @ente instead of Authy. - Add proton pass from @protonprivacy to the password manager section. - Add mullvad browser from @mullvadnet to the browser section. - Also add @brave too since even if it is based on chromium it is still better than using chrome. - Add divestos.org/ to the alternative os section.
What’s wrong with Chromium? Browsers based on it use a robust sandbox and enhanced security measures. According to @GrapheneOS recommendations, we should "avoid Gecko-based browsers like Firefox as they're currently much more vulnerable to exploitation and inherently add a huge amount of attack surface". grapheneos.org/usage#web-brows…
Your current list includes 5 web browsers where 3 of them completely lack even a content sandbox due to being based on Firefox for Android and the other 2 are based on Chromium. DuckDuckGo and Privacy Browser are WebView-based browsers using the system WebView implementation, which is provided by the OS with a Chromium-based browser engine. On Android operating systems including the Google apps and services, DuckDuckGo and Privacy Browser are directly using Google Chrome itself.
Don't get me wrong, your intentions are probably good, but inherently as a privacy project - and direct competitive to some alternative services which you will not be able to list while being great choices - you will not be an objective source for these recommendations. A lot of these services are either outdated, or there are much better alternatives for them, many of which are completely missing.
Chromium shows that the browser itself is alright, it's the figurative "last 5%", where Google adds proprietary features to create Chrome, that taints the well.
Also, for people who are trying to promote cancel culture towards Brave, there are also great people at Brave, such as @bcrypt.
No cos it's run by a homophobe, it contains shady crypto nonsense that add their own ad service, and it's overall controversial, making it safer for you to not include them. Their ad system makes a lot of money to Brave, but it does not to the users nor to the websites. I'd say it's scummy. Apparently the broswer also automatically added affiliate link to purchases. Affiliate links enable tracking.
Silmathoron ⁂
in reply to Tuta • • •Joshua Lee
in reply to Tuta • • •Jana
in reply to Tuta • • •Not only are they Chromium based and thus IMO shouldn't be included if vanilla Chromium is in the list, but they also have their weird crypto stuff and the CEO has A LOT of problematic views.
So that's a solid NO.
noodlejetski :verified_gay:
in reply to Tuta • • •Stop using Brave Browser - by Corbin Davenport
Corbin Davenport (The Spacebar)ᗪ乇ᗪ丂乇匚 :verified:
in reply to Tuta • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Tuta • • •It’s run by a homophobe. You decide.
ft.com/content/461bf398-47ee-1…
Opposing gay marriage cost Brendan Eich his job at Mozilla
Hannah Kuchler (Financial Times)aswack
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Gary W
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •@aral
I have been using Brave for a long time and it has never asked me to be a homophobe. This is the first time I have heard of this allegation.
Aral Balkan
in reply to Gary W • • •solstice
in reply to Tuta • • •I'm not really fond of including it due to the founders homophobic past.
The argument of not including it because it's Chromium falls short in my opinion as DuckDuckGo and Privacy Browser are included, which on Android use System WebView (likely Chrome WebView). WebView is a lot less secure then a Chromium based browser.
I believe Firefox based browsers are also less secure on Android due to not having Per-Site Process Isolation.
Aral Balkan
in reply to Tuta • • •Basic Attention Token
Basic Attention TokenTuta
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Strypey
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •@aral@ar.al
> this is what Brave is actually about: basicattentiontoken.org
Why didn't you lead with this?
If the software itself respects the people using it, and does its job well, who cares if someone in charge has dopey opinions about some things? I mean, everyone has dopey opinions about something ....
I'm vegan. If I boycotted all software written by corpse eaters, I might feel righteous and pure, but I wouldn't be using computers much ....
@solstice @Tutanota
Aral Balkan
in reply to Strypey • • •Strypey
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •@aral @solstice It might make you sleep better at night to believe your personal morals beliefs are based on universal moral laws. But I'm sorry, they're not (see: meaningness.com/fixation-and-d…).
As I said, I think homophobia is dopey. But comparing it to a fascist regime that caused the deaths of millions of people is hyperbolic in the extreme. Just like the people demanding Nuremberg trials, to punish politicians for their pandemic measures.
Fixation and denial | Meaningness
MeaningnessAral Balkan
in reply to Strypey • • •Azarilhⓥ
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •T1M_Or :verified_flashing:
in reply to Tuta • • •Erklärbär
in reply to Tuta • • •I also miss #mullvadbrowser and #firefox_focus. #invidious in the meantime is unfortunately almost useless. I miss #standardnotes #Threema, #magicearth, #KeepassDX, #strongbox.
Tuta
in reply to Erklärbär • • •Baffling7384
in reply to Tuta • • •Thibault Molleman🇧🇪 🌈🐝
in reply to Tuta • • •- Add @organicmaps to the gmaps alternatives. it's by far the easiest osm based maps app
- Add @ente auth for google auth alternatives. it's much more feature rich and it's foss
- add @kagihq to the search engines. They're privacy respecting * one small note is that they do utilize google as one of it's search indexes that it uses, so you'd still be giving google some money technically (had to mention it)
Tuta
in reply to Thibault Molleman🇧🇪 🌈🐝 • • •Thibault Molleman🇧🇪 🌈🐝
in reply to Tuta • • •Baffling7384
in reply to Tuta • • •Why are you recommending Authy, a very shitty service, but not Organic Maps and Obtainium for .apk updates?
For browsers there is Mulch and Mull from DivestOS, which are forks of Chromium and Firefox respectively or Brave. Either of which would be much better than Fennec, Privacy Browser, or Firefox from a privacy or security perspective.
Gdlhà :estelada: :gnu: :emacs:
in reply to Tuta • • •Falta protonmail obviously grr
Miquel 🇵🇸 🇱🇧 :paisoscat:
in reply to Tuta • • •nictakiego
in reply to Tuta • • •Guillaume Ross
in reply to Tuta • • •Stew
in reply to Tuta • • •If its google alternatives, you shouldn't include Brave or Chromium. Hopefully we can add Ladybird to that list in a few years. 🤞
Maybe add Freetube as an alternative Youtube client ?
Tuta
in reply to Stew • • •Don't Let Me Fall
in reply to Tuta • • •Because most web developers don't seem to build websites with Firefox users in mind, there are a good number of websites that function poorly in Firefox.
So, for the users seeking an alternative that don't want to use Firefox, I'd say include an open source Chromium-based browser. There are none that are convenient, except Brave and Chromium itself. But Chromium would be defeating the purpose.
Unfortunately, the majority of people care more about convenience than anything else.
Don't Let Me Fall
in reply to Tuta • • •As far as the rest of this list is concerned. It's needed an update for a while now.
Play Store:
Aurora Store + Obtainium
Docs:
NextCloud + LibreOffice
GDrive:
NextCloud + pCloud + Filen Sync + Icedrive + Proton
Instant Messenger:
Matrix - FluffyChat, Element, Element X
Map:
Organic Maps
Password:
KeepassDX + OneKeePass
Authenticator:
KeePass clients can be used as authenticators.
YouTube:
FreeTube + Odysee (toxic though)
AND remove Vimeo
Web search:
Brave search + Startpage
Wham
in reply to Tuta • • •Tuta
in reply to Wham • • •Adam Wysokiński
in reply to Tuta • • •Tuta
in reply to Adam Wysokiński • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Tuta • • •Chiwy
in reply to Tuta • • •Tuta
in reply to Chiwy • • •Mad Scientist
in reply to Tuta • • •- Add ente auth from @ente instead of Authy.
- Add proton pass from @protonprivacy to the password manager section.
- Add mullvad browser from @mullvadnet to the browser section.
- Also add @brave too since even if it is based on chromium it is still better than using chrome.
- Add divestos.org/ to the alternative os section.
Home - DivestOS Mobile
divestos.orghoek 💎
in reply to Tuta • • •Dmitry Bartoshevich
in reply to Tuta • • •grapheneos.org/usage#web-brows…
GrapheneOS usage guide
GrapheneOSArturo Serrano 🇨🇴🤖👽🧙🦄
in reply to Tuta • • •By the way, Vivaldi should totally be suggested.
GrapheneOS
in reply to Tuta • • •ticklemyIP
in reply to Tuta • • •Are these recommendations really the best idea?
Don't get me wrong, your intentions are probably good, but inherently as a privacy project - and direct competitive to some alternative services which you will not be able to list while being great choices - you will not be an objective source for these recommendations. A lot of these services are either outdated, or there are much better alternatives for them, many of which are completely missing.
khurozov
in reply to Tuta • • •Paper Great Great Grandson
in reply to Tuta • • •Gary W
in reply to Tuta • • •taivlam
in reply to Tuta • • •Chromium shows that the browser itself is alright, it's the figurative "last 5%", where Google adds proprietary features to create Chrome, that taints the well.
Also, for people who are trying to promote cancel culture towards Brave, there are also great people at Brave, such as @bcrypt.
taivlam
in reply to Tuta • • •Here are some other recommendations:
Dragos Pirvu
in reply to Tuta • • •Azarilhⓥ
in reply to Tuta • • •Their ad system makes a lot of money to Brave, but it does not to the users nor to the websites. I'd say it's scummy. Apparently the broswer also automatically added affiliate link to purchases. Affiliate links enable tracking.
Azarilhⓥ
in reply to Tuta • • •Google is gonna hate you for advertising NewPipe. 😹
Also, why did you not list Qwant as a search engine?
Rəşad Qasımlı
in reply to Tuta • • •Mick Mavromatis
in reply to Tuta • • •