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#chatmail does secure email federation that works. Using lean "relay" servers that enforce metadata-minimized end-to-end encryption.

There is a new little tool that checks whether two relays are interacting well for messaging, and how fast. You need a terminal window and be able to execute:

pip install cmping

you can then run for example:

cmping mailchat.pl nine.testrun.org

to perform a "ping" test for e2ee-messaging. Also see chatmail.at/relays

github.com/chatmail/cmping/

screenshot of a command installable with "pip install cmping". (venv) hpk@gamma:~$ cmping mailchat.pl nine.testrun.org # using accounts_dir at: /home/hpk/.cache/cmping CMPING mailchat.pl(jscsiirgr@mailchat.pl) -> nine.testrun.org(76yzfhcig@nine 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=0 time=899.98ms 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=1 time=537.55ms 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=2 time=583.42ms 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=11 time=555.63ms ... 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=12 time=560.16ms 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=13 time=543.74ms 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=14 time=641.86ms 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=15 time=649.15ms 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=25 time=553.25ms 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=26 time=583.68ms 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=27 time=641.81ms 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=28 time=650.70ms 64 bytes ME -> mailchat.pl -> nine.testrun.org -> ME seq=29 time=558.98ms --- jscsiirgr@mailchat.pl -> 76yzfhcig@nine.testrun.org statistics --- 30 transmitted, 30 received, 0.00% loss rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 537.554/596.469/899.980/71.002 ms

Chatmail: Relays

Chatmail provides FOSS infrastructure for interoperable, secure, speedy and reliable end-to-end encrypted messaging. Check out clients as Arcane Chat, Bots or Delta Chat today!
chatmail.at
#chatmail
in reply to Delta Chat

leberschnitzel
mastodon - Link to source
leberschnitzel
• •
is there a point where this should mean "better upgrade the server"? What are good/bad values?
in reply to leberschnitzel

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@leberschnitzel no, it depends on location, and maybe speed of dns resolution. Note that the ping is measuring the time from client (me) to one server, to another server and to the client, so travel over four network connections.
@leberschnitzel
in reply to Delta Chat

Radasbona
mastodon - Link to source
Radasbona
• •

i opened DC today and a message from 5 days ago poped up. As usually. 🤨

my telegram, signal and matrix client has realtime notification via #UnifiedPush

Deltachat is unuseable. Sorry guys.
Fast S2S is less important than fast push to client.

#unifiedpush
in reply to Radasbona

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@radasbona Do you run some Unified Push distributor such as ntfy in background? If you can run Unified Push distributor, what does prevent running Delta Chat the same way?
@Radasbona
in reply to Delta Chat

Radasbona
mastodon - Link to source
Radasbona
• •

easy, because in this case i have two in background. only one is necessary.

(btw: i forgot the mastodon client)

in reply to Radasbona

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
If the problem boils down to the users allowing UnifiedPush client to run and denying the same permission to Delta Chat, then it is not interesting to spend development effort on it as the problem can be solved by allowing DC to run in the background. We do support FCM (besides Ubuntu Touch and Apple) notifications for the phones that do not allow to run apps in background, but there you cannot run UnifiedPush as well.
in reply to Delta Chat

Radasbona
mastodon - Link to source
Radasbona
• •
the clients using unifiedpush DOESN'T have permission to run in the background.
in reply to Radasbona

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@radasbona "UnifiedPush client" means distributor client such as Ntfy client, in the message above, not Telegram, Signal and Matrix.
@Radasbona
in reply to Delta Chat

Radasbona
mastodon - Link to source
Radasbona
• •

yes.
That is the only necessary background connection. (Foss & self hosted)

Imagine every client demands a connection on his own. (like Deltachat)

in reply to Delta Chat

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
mastodon - Link to source
LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
• •
won't install it in root os, i will not host any relay until a docker image exist.
in reply to Dusty

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
mastodon - Link to source
LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
• •

@d1 actually if you run fedora when you install "docker" from repo, it's not docker but the moby-engine (also made by docker but it's an open framework).

docker is used everywhere so they would touch more people by making first a docker image (compatible podman).

@Dusty
in reply to LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺

Jarrod Urban
mastodon - Link to source
Jarrod Urban
• •

@lexinova @d1 It is just Python. If you do not want to install it with pip you could use a Python virtual environment.

It is almost as easy as running a bash script.

@Dusty @LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
in reply to Jarrod Urban

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
probably the previous posts were about running a relay, not just the "cmping" tool we highlighted in the top level post. all the custom code in relays is also done in python btw. Overview on relay architecture got reworked lately chatmail.at/doc/relay/overview…

Technical overview - chatmail relay documentation

chatmail.at
This entry was edited (1 week ago)
in reply to Delta Chat

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
mastodon - Link to source
LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
• •

@jarrodu @d1 yes but it do not remove my answer on the fact i have no intent to run something on the os itself, if no docker image (or equivalent containerized image) is available i will certainly never install it.

Because with docker image i can backup a docker compose and the file.

on basic os it's more complicated

@Jarrod Urban @Dusty
in reply to Jarrod Urban

Dusty
mastodon - Link to source
Dusty
• •

@jarrodu @lexinova There are tons of moving parts in the diagrams: chatmail.at/doc/relay/overview…

When I see a bunch of moving parts like that, I get cold feet, that it'll be as easy as people make out. Is there a Youtube/Peertube video on this? If it's as easy as you claim, then I'd like to see a from-scratch install on #Debian 12, using python's uv for the package manager of chatrelay (in a uv venv). Including sending initial testing messages proving it's working in production.

Technical overview - chatmail relay documentation

chatmail.at
#Debian @Jarrod Urban @LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
in reply to Dusty

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@d1 @jarrodu @lexinova Dusty, not quite sure what you mean with "tons of moving parts". It's true that we are aren't very strong in the "providing videos" game 😂 be our guest :)
@Jarrod Urban @Dusty @LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
in reply to Delta Chat

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
mastodon - Link to source
LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
• •

@d1 @jarrodu i say it again... if you don't have docker image, don't expect see many relay.

Mastodon usage for self hosting exploded from when they proposed one.

@Jarrod Urban @Dusty
in reply to Dusty

Jarrod Urban
mastodon - Link to source
Jarrod Urban
• •
@d1 @lexinova
Debian 13 is out now. If you are thinking of doing that, I would recommend using it. I am using it for all my systems.
@Dusty @LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
This entry was edited (1 week ago)
in reply to Jarrod Urban

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@jarrodu main blocker for upgrading to Debian 13 is this issue: github.com/chatmail/relay/issu… if you subscribe there, you'll hear news when they come in. For now, we regard debian 12 as a fine target environment. If dovecot folks would finally merge our speed-patch github.com/dovecot/core/pull/2… then that would be a incentive for us to move to a new debian.

Upgrade to Dovecot 2.4.0

Dovecot 2.4 has compatibility-breaking changes, so configs will need upgrade: https://doc.dovecot.org/2.4.0/installation/upgrade/2.3-to-2.4.html https://web.archive.org/web/20250310165315/https://d...
link2xt (GitHub)
@Jarrod Urban
in reply to Jarrod Urban

LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
mastodon - Link to source
LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
• •
@jarrodu @d1 and it's simply a nope for me, installing something on the system EVEN PYTHON, is a liability when you need an upgrade of OS, as a python update can break it.
@Jarrod Urban @Dusty
in reply to LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺

Teoh Han Hui
mastodon - Link to source
Teoh Han Hui
• •

@lexinova @jarrodu @d1 Use venv, e.g. `python3 -m venv ~/.venv/chatmail` + `. ~/.venv/chatmail/bin/activate`

docs.python.org/3/library/venv…


venv — Creation of virtual environments

Source code: Lib/venv/ The venv module supports creating lightweight “virtual environments”, each with their own independent set of Python packages installed in their site directories. A virtual en...
Python documentation
@Jarrod Urban @Dusty @LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
in reply to Teoh Han Hui

Dusty
mastodon - Link to source
Dusty
• •
@teohhanhui @lexinova @jarrodu Thanks for that. I've used venvs before for a couple other python projects (copyparty being the most server-like). It becomes non-trivial when you want to set up a systemd service to start a server at boot time, and the venv must be invoked from systemd. Can systemd start, stop, disable, and enable the service reliably from the command line (systemctl)? Everyone apparently assumes these things are simple; hand-waving away such details as trivialities, but no they aren't trivial.
@Teoh Han Hui @Jarrod Urban @LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
in reply to Dusty

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •

@d1 Chatmail relay uses systemd to run services in a venv. All the work setting this up is done by "cmdeploy" script, so you don't need to manage this yourself: chatmail.at/doc/relay/getting_…

As for "cmping", if you just want to run the command, you can install pipx.pypa.io/ and run `pipx run cmping example.org example.net`. pipx will manage creation of venv and setting up cmping package from PyPI.

Syntax-highlighted systemd unit of filtermail as used by chatmail relays

pipx

execute binaries from Python packages in isolated environments
pipx.pypa.io
@Dusty
in reply to Delta Chat

Dusty
mastodon - Link to source
Dusty
• •
I, for one, am waiting for them to support #Debian 13, not 12 (for chatmail relay). #Postfix changed their config variables as of 13; I'm concerned about an ugly upgrade path from 12 to 13.
#Debian #postfix
This entry was edited (1 week ago)
in reply to Delta Chat

ANDREQ 🇷🇺
friendica - Link to source
ANDREQ 🇷🇺
• •
Ok.. I love DC, here I have no problems with it, but why (without going into technical details, implementation).... On my phone, pure Lineage OS without Google services, without anything! Notifications are received on Telegram and WhatsApp, but there are always difficulties in Deltachat. Why! Just explain to me (maybe not even to me, in simple terms... for those who are very far from programming) why is there no simple implementation?! What's in the way?!
in reply to ANDREQ 🇷🇺

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@pescetarian Do you have "Instant Delivery" settings enabled in the notifications section?
@ANDREQ 🇷🇺
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