With #HolosDiscover we checked multiple criteria before indexing: "indexable" enabled, account not locked, no #nobot or #noindex in bio, not in opted-out list, only public posts. Every deletion, edit or block was processed instantly via #ActivityPub.
Google uses that same "indexable" flag but ignores everything else, keeps deleted content cached for weeks.
We shut it down after pushback. Was that the right call? Don't hesitate to share, this concerns the whole Fediverse.
Google uses that same "indexable" flag but ignores everything else, keeps deleted content cached for weeks.
We shut it down after pushback. Was that the right call? Don't hesitate to share, this concerns the whole Fediverse.
- It should have stayed up (55%, 122 votes)
- Right call to shut it down (26%, 57 votes)
- No opinion (18%, 40 votes)
LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
in reply to Fedilab Apps • • •the issue of #nobot #noindex, it's the fact it's opt-out
and people are fedup of opt out and want opt in
Fedilab Apps
in reply to LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺 • • •The debate goes beyond that. The real question is why developers chose to enable "indexable" by default when creating an account. A default opt-in is effectively an opt-out. That's where the conversation should start.
Lutin Discret
in reply to Fedilab Apps • • •Morgan ⚧️
in reply to Fedilab Apps • • •Fedilab Apps
in reply to Fedilab Apps • • •LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
in reply to Fedilab Apps • • •maybe make a post for the most used (mastodon), on witch settings change for people that do not want to allow this.
As they may have missed this or misunderstood what the switch did
And since one of the two is recommemded, it may make them allow thing they actually don't want :)
some may misunderstand both settings:
- Include public posts in search results
- Feature profile and posts in discovery algorithms
Fedilab Apps
in reply to LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺 • • •@lexinova
We can't change how Mastodon presents those settings, but we had a page explaining how the service works and how to opt out per platform. We'll communicate even more clearly if the service comes back.
Worth noting that this opt-in by default setting also allows Google to index fediverse profiles, except they don't check for consent at all. This is a much bigger issue that goes way beyond our project, which actually tries to do things the right way.
🫧 socialcoding..
in reply to Fedilab Apps • • •@lexinova
The fediverse is built app-centric, where people build their own particular app functionality and use cases and then try to get a reasonable amount of interoperability with other apps (or only with themself in some cases).
I think the general issue is that in building a consent mechanism an app should not depend on consent mechanisms of other apps.
The fact that Mastodon does something with Indexable flag, and provides config settings in the UI is pure app-specific and not protocol functionality, not a native capability of the social network that can be relied upon.
Cat 🐈🥗 (D.Burch)
in reply to Fedilab Apps • • •Fediverse search engines are a contentious subject with a bad history, so I undestand you shutting it down.
While I'm fine with it, many people are very against things like that.
Lutin Discret
in reply to Fedilab Apps • • •if an account is marked as indexable, just index it. If the default is wrong, that's the instance admin fault, nit yours.
If Google can index it you can too.
If people are unhappy with the setting of their profile, they can change it or blame the software or the admin and not people of good faith like you.
Public toots are talking to the world in a megaphone by design, expecting privacy is absurd
Fedilab Apps
in reply to Lutin Discret • • •We panicked quickly because things escalated beyond what we expected. But we still believe our approach was far more respectful than what's already happening: the same data is being exploited by others without users even knowing. At worst, we raised awareness.
Nemo
in reply to Fedilab Apps • • •You're right, and you're good people.
However, people posting on social media expecting their postings to be private are Just Wrong.
And I will add that they're the ones making mastodon toxic at times, and I'm sorry you were a victim of them.
@lutindiscret
ScriptFanix💍⏚ ⸫
in reply to Fedilab Apps • • •tatiana
in reply to Fedilab Apps • • •the things that concerned me at the time were, in the initial announcement, 'we follow every signal' but only in this post did we know what signals you were following; and language of 'people may have misunderstood the defaults' which unfortunately rhymes with what less conscientious organisations say to justify hoovering all the things
if i had known the list of things you were looking at, i would have simply checked them and slept well. i didn't, so i blocked the bot, which now proves to have been unnecessary