Skip to main content

mastodon - Link to source
While platforms like #Matrix or #Signal manage user identities on a server, #DeltaChat and #Chatmail are not platforms in the classic sense. They operate without a central registry, meaning there is no central gatekeeper to grant or deny access. This setup for private messaging naturally complicates invasive age verification. Without a public registry or user discovery, there is no technical hook to verify users. #Chatmail also enforces E2EE by rejecting all unencrypted data. ... (1/3)
#Signal #matrix #deltachat #chatmail
in reply to Delta Chat

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
The total privacy of #DeltaChat has a trade-off: there is no global directory. Connecting for private messaging requires a direct QR scan or using an existing channel to exchange invite links. The hurdle is often the readiness of friends, family, or those around you to switch. However, once connected, the app is an enjoyable daily driver. It is about moving to a space where you cannot be found by strangers, but can still enjoy modern, reliable chat with those who matter. ... (2/3)
#deltachat
in reply to Delta Chat

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
#DeltaChat breaks the one app, one ID rule of phone-number-based apps by supporting multiple chat profiles. This allows for true private messaging where you can keep a public identity for the Web or Fediverse separate from a private one for family and friends. Managing multiple selves is a new experience for many, but it is key to digital autonomy. We are working to make multi-profile handling even smoother in upcoming releases to ensure switching contexts is seamless. (3/3)
#deltachat
in reply to Delta Chat

Igor
mastodon - Link to source
Igor
• •
There are only a few messengers which support multiple chat profiles,it is a nice thing to have!
in reply to Delta Chat

๐ŸŒˆโ˜”๐ŸŒฆ๏ธ๐Ÿ„๐ŸŒฑ๐Ÿ‰
mastodon - Link to source
๐ŸŒˆโ˜”๐ŸŒฆ๏ธ๐Ÿ„๐ŸŒฑ๐Ÿ‰
• •

but matrix works without the central en identity server, i never opted in for that and can use it fine. Which features do you lose there that deltachat does have?

(Love deltachat btw)

in reply to ๐ŸŒˆโ˜”๐ŸŒฆ๏ธ๐Ÿ„๐ŸŒฑ๐Ÿ‰

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
thanks :) With Matrix, you have free choice of server (unlike with Signal), but afterwards the selected server becomes an identity host, and controls access. It also manages membership in groups, for which metadata is stored on the server. Chatmail relays do none of that. They just relay encrypted messages, and forget about them soon afterwards.
This entry was edited (3 days ago)
in reply to Delta Chat

Dr. Marco Klement
glitchsoc - Link to source
Dr. Marco Klement
• •
How does Delta Chat handle moving servers? As far as I understand, I have a OpenPGP private key, and can update the public key and identities (like regular email OpenPGP keys). Are contacts sent a message to update their key store automatically? What happens, if someone sends a message to a previous server?
in reply to Dr. Marco Klement

bjoern
mastodon - Link to source
bjoern
• •

@maklem first of all, to be clear, Delta Chat does not talk about "keys" in the UI at all nor offer any options for them.

technically, under the hood, a keypair is generated automatically on profile generation. chat partners get the public part of that only through direct contact, eg. QR code. if then relays change, this does not matter - only the cryptographic identity does.

there is rotation for "reliable deletion" (PFS) upcoming, tho. see fosdem.org/2026/schedule/eventโ€ฆ


FOSDEM 2026 - Autocrypt 2: Post-Quantum-Cryptography and Reliable Deletion (

fosdem.org
@Dr. Marco Klement
in reply to bjoern

Dr. Marco Klement
glitchsoc - Link to source
Dr. Marco Klement
• •

@r10s technically, things are complicated. ๐Ÿ˜…

The cryptographic identity ensures, that I can decrypt messages, and only I can do so (or the group of intended recipients).

However for messages to reach me, there needs to be information, where they need to be sent to, like an email address. Let's say relay A died, and I move to relay B. Unless every relay has every message, my contacts need to be informed, that messages need to be sent to relay B for me to receive them.

In OpenPGP (for email) cryptographic public key(s) are usually bundled with user-id/email-address certifications. (The bundle is (again) referred to as public key. ๐Ÿ˜ก) While keeping the cryptographic identity, user ids can be added and removed/revoked/expired. However I am responsible to share the updated information with others (using a keyserver, WKD, or by sending the updates to contacts directly).

Delta Chat needs to handle the updates for chats to keep running. If it does not, I would need to update contacts myself. So my question still is: How are contacts informed?

@bjoern
in reply to Dr. Marco Klement

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@maklem @r10s Your contacts are informed when they receive a message from you, e.g. in a group chat. As you continue to receive messages on your old relays, you don't need to update all of your contacts right away. This is also a way to get rid of stalkers or spammers - just don't message them from your new relay, and disable your old relay when all of your contacts are updated.
@bjoern @Dr. Marco Klement
in reply to Delta Chat

Stomata ๐Ÿฅผ
sharkey - Link to source
Stomata ๐Ÿฅผ
• •
only thing keeping me from using delta regularly is calling support. How is the experimental p2p calling going forward?
in reply to Stomata ๐Ÿฅผ

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@Stomata it's improved in every release but still some time before it can be enabled by default, and be as usable and robust as we want it to be.
@Stomata ๐Ÿฅผ
in reply to Delta Chat

Jan
mastodon - Link to source
Jan
• •
right now i try to find a good method to decide whether to go for #deltachat or #jami . the included video chat in Jami is definitely good to have. Anyone already compared those two ?
#deltachat #jami
in reply to Delta Chat

emilianosandri
mastodon - Link to source
emilianosandri
• •
In some way its for the better, I have full control over who I chat with. It reminds me of the gold old Windows Live Messenger where you need your friend Windows Live ID in order to send him a request.
in reply to Delta Chat

nathanael
mastodon - Link to source
nathanael
• •
you lost me with multiple selves
in reply to nathanael

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@nathanael maybe think of it like having a 'Work Phone' and a 'Personal Phone'โ€”but inside one app. You can have one profile for the public web or your job, and a completely separate one for your close family and friends. This way, your work contacts don't see your personal profile picture, and random people from the web or your job can't interrupt your family time (Profiles can be wholly muted).
@nathanael
in reply to Delta Chat

LฮžX/Nร˜Vฮ› ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
mastodon - Link to source
LฮžX/Nร˜Vฮ› ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
• •
@nathanael how will phone call will be managed if let's say, my familly profile receive a call, when i'm on the friend profile ?
@nathanael
in reply to Delta Chat

Lรฉon van Kammen
mastodon - Link to source
Lรฉon van Kammen
• •
but matrix/signal/dovecot all have a central list with users no? isn't matrix server-federation like emailserver-federation? what is different?
This entry was edited (3 days ago)
in reply to Lรฉon van Kammen

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@lvk email addresses are not tied to user identity. A user can (already today) have multiple transport addresses. You can not send a message to an address, not even the server operator can, if you don't know the cryptographic chat identity behind the address. There is no public discovery. Key exchange happens p2p via invite links and by gossiping in chat groups but these cryptography certs and identities are not visible to the transport because they travel in the encrypted part of messages.
@Lรฉon van Kammen
in reply to Delta Chat

Lรฉon van Kammen
mastodon - Link to source
Lรฉon van Kammen
• •
'not even the server operator can' <--are you saying that a chatmail operator would only encounter encrypted data in dovecot's datastorage?
But in matrix there's public discovery of any user who's online/offline?
in reply to Lรฉon van Kammen

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
matrix home servers store and control a users identity, including membership in rooms, descriptions of.rooms, avatars etc. a chatmail relay doesn't store or see such metadata information. Moreover, a relay can not prevent you from chatting because you can as well use another relay to send and receive your messages.
This entry was edited (2 days ago)
in reply to Delta Chat

matiu bidule
mastodon - Link to source
matiu bidule
• •
i would love to get my friends and familly to Delta but they are locked in the WhatsApp Prison ๐Ÿ˜ญ
in reply to Delta Chat

ReindeR Rustema
mastodon - Link to source
ReindeR Rustema
• •

I understood that those with an e-mail address on their own domain can easily set up chatmail on their own domain. That is how it seems to work for me. I have been 'chatting' through e-mail without the recipients aware of what I was doing.

That is how it is supposed to work, right?

in reply to ReindeR Rustema

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@rrustema yes, you can use dedicated mail boxes on your own server and it works with chatmail relays and other email servers. Proper TLS and dkim is needed, typically.
@ReindeR Rustema
in reply to Delta Chat

ReindeR Rustema
mastodon - Link to source
ReindeR Rustema
• •
I trust my ISP @freedominternet to take care of TLS en DKIM for the domain I run my e-mail on, through them. And I chose the appendix -im to my username before the @ for the dedicated mailbox. As in instant message. From there I have sent e-mail to others with ordinary e-mail. It worked!
@Freedom Internet
in reply to Delta Chat

Igor
mastodon - Link to source
Igor
• •
I trust only decentralized messengers without providing personal information and without dubious permissions
in reply to Delta Chat

Benjamin Kwiecieล„ ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ
gotosocial - Link to source
Benjamin Kwiecieล„ ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ
• •
does that mean it's legal in the UK?
in reply to Benjamin Kwiecieล„ ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@ben some people, even lawyers from the UK guess so, but it's hasn't been tested in court. It's at least clear that without global user discovery, the attack surfaces shrinks enormously for would-be-abusers.
@Benjamin Kwiecieล„ ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ
in reply to Delta Chat

Lambda
mastodon - Link to source
Lambda
• •
bashing other projects while clearly not really knowing how they work is a bit awkward, don't you think?
in reply to Lambda

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@lambda could you expand what you consider bashing here? It should be fine to point out differences in architectures and how identities are handled in messaging systems, no?
@Lambda
in reply to Delta Chat

Lambda
mastodon - Link to source
Lambda
• •
yes, but throwing matrix in the same bucket as signal and implying it's a "platform in the classic sense" is a bit misleading, no? Sure, Delta/Chatmail are even less centralised, but there's a world of difference between "you need to sign up to the central service with your phone number" and "you can run your server completely yourself and still talk to everyone without ever creating an account anywhere else"
in reply to Lambda

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@lambda fair enough. But the focus here was on where user identities are hosted and controlled. A chosen Matrix server is similar to the non-choosable signal servers in that it controls access and use of a user identity. In our designs, user identities reside solely on end-user devices. A group chat only exists on the member's devices and no where else.
@Lambda
in reply to Delta Chat

Ulrich (Hubzilla)
hubzilla - Link to source
Ulrich (Hubzilla)
• •
@Delta Chat Your own product is always praised and highlighted. Of course that's important.
But if there are gaps or shortcomings, you shouldn't always leave it to the โ€œreviewers.โ€
Say what works, what's great, but also what doesn't work and where the pitfalls are.
People will find out in the end anyway.
Why not be upfront about it from the start?
@Delta Chat
in reply to Ulrich (Hubzilla)

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@ulrich If you look at our responses, we are up-front about calls support not being production ready. Or that getting in contact is harder. But it should also be fine to have a post about fundamental architectural differences, which is one of many ways to discuss messengers. We are basically pointing out that even decentralized offerings can still, after the initial choice is made, have users depend on a single server for using an identity.
@Ulrich (Hubzilla)
โ‡ง