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Dear Fedi friends,

Apologies for another toot about #WSocial but I am genuinely shaking right now.

The @EUCommission and its president Ursula von der Leyen have recently migrated their ATproto (Bluesky) accounts to W Social.

I cannot fathom why they would pick a private enterprise whose leaders didn't even have ATproto accounts 3 months ago... and who are so open to having their users' data mined to train European AI models.

My articles on them:

🔗 : blog.elenarossini.com/tag/w-so…

Wow. Just wow.

This entry was edited (4 days ago)

Aral Balkan reshared this.

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

I think your line "platform soft-launched at Davos" rather sums up how this happened 😢.
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

Jfc, they managed to get their own Mastodon server. Why not their own PDS? 🤦‍♂️️ It's not that hard.
in reply to Radomír Žemlička

@Razemix well, ATproto is not like the Fediverse, to be truly independent and sovereign you need to host your own PDS, relay, firehose and moderation (amongst other things). It takes money, resources and expertise. I'm surprised they didn't move to Eurosky TBH
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

Yeah, I know, creating a whole separate stack would be an overkill. They could definitely leverage Eurosky in this regard. What I'm saying is that at least having their own PDS (to have control over their data) should be an absolute no-brainer.
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

@Razemix but W is just a PDS rn, which is very simple to set up I'm following many kids who are running their own.
in reply to Hylke Bons 🥜

@hbons @shemjm I was just about to say, why does it look like the intern just discovered html?
in reply to Gina

@Gina @hbons @shemjm that's clearsky.app which is just a random tool someone made early on that can show some info about peoples Bluesky accounts
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

I remember when W was announced, the things they emphasised were:

A) "Now Europeans can be the information gatekeepers too!"

B) "Now Europeans can harvest data too!"

It's as if they looked at facebook and twitter and focused on the very worst aspects of them as what they wanted to reproduce, rather than on the basic humans-talking-to-humans aspect.

in reply to Passenger

@passenger indeed! I've seen dozens of presentations they've given and they want to build a European Everything App, WeChat style. Microblogging, identity, payments... with no previous background in this space, just a desire to build alternatives, hosted in Europe, of INCREDIBLY PROBLEMATIC and toxic Big Tech apps. Digital sovereignty goes beyond having servers hosted in Europe.

@EUCommission

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

My suspicion, and I cannot prove this because I was not in the room at the time, is that this is also what the closed-door investor pitches for other social media apps were like. The difference here is that they aren't bothering with also having a pitch to the end users. I'm going to guess that this approach probably will not help with widespread adoption, given that attention is so sought-after nowadays.

On the one hand, we could read this as a parable about the Commission as a whole: so accustomed to the top-down insider-first approach that they never considered even the appearance of asking users what they wanted and then building that.

On the other hand, this may simply be where we are in the common era year twenty twenty six: wannabe oligarchs talking to governments about what sort of tech the peasants will be herded into.

in reply to Passenger

@passenger 🎯 🎯 🎯 🎯 perfectly said!

And I find it ironic that the whole purpose of W is to "replace X" and yet I am getting so many "Muskian" vibes from them. They're even copying the idea of the Everything App and payment system

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

On the ATmosphere, I have a Eurosky account. It may be better, but they just launched a new ATproto Web interface which requires age declaration...
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

For context, my two articles on #WSocial didn't include some explosive things I found out in my research because:
- I was given some information on background, confidentially
- I found a particular thread to be a bit distracting (aka the MEGA hats sold on a website with far right paraphernalia)

Plus there are so many white lies... a pattern of misrepresentation that makes it really hard for me to trust them.

Do I have to write a THIRD article about W now? 🫠

in reply to patpro

@patpro Make Europe Great Again = MEGA

But they also have ironic red MAGA hats that say "Make science great again)

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

thanks for your service Elena, I was getting an eye on WSocial since it started and people was defending it as "the European bluesky", which always sounded weird to me.

I should've thought they were going to be this kind of shit eventually...

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

File under: #WSocial shenanigans

I was alerted by @usti that the video of the Monaco AI conference presentation by W Social CEO Anna Zeiter was removed from their YouTube channel. You know, the video that I referenced in my second exposé about W Social, quoted extensively (because some of her statements were truly shocking).

This is the only video that was removed from their channel. I thought I had downloaded a copy to my computer... but hey, proof from the Wayback Machine of its existence

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

⚠️ More shocking news! 🚨

Christine Lagarde and the European Central Bank have just migrated to #WSocial too!!!

(For context, see the beginning of this thread).

I'm at a loss for words today. Truly.

What a world.

If you missed my exposés on this controversial, problematic company, here they are:

🔗 : blog.elenarossini.com/tag/w-so…

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

- I don't get why #wsocial and not #eurosky
- Or even better, to bridge their #fediverse accounts with #bridgyfed

The best thing I could find about this news, is to spread the concept of different federated servers, to the european people on #atproto
They will see in action that an account they follow could simply migrate, and they could also

cc @hpod16

in reply to mat

@mat I'M NOT EVEN SURE THEY HAVE A FULLY INDEPENDENT INFRASTRUCTURE 😱😱😱😱😱

To be truly sovereign and independent on #ATproto (from Bluesky PBC), you need to self-host your own:
- PDS
- relay
- PLC directory mirror
- indexer
- data plane
- moderation tools
...

@tokeriis

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

the new eurosky appview also runs with some bsky infrastructure as they lack of funding. I think wsocial will be promoted as the official European twitter alternative for politics as it's very professional-branded. however they still can use the relay/plc directory eurosky released recently. imo eurosky is a more transparent infrastructure but wsocial is still better than twitter though

@tokeriis

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

the “executive” functions of the EU have been problematic in this regard. Have you raised this with the EU Parliament, you probably have a MEP? They technically should oversee the Commission (who doesn’t like this) otherwise the next body the is the EU Council (ie ministers/states).
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

but isn't that 100% to expect, that all the EU government people/institutions who are on bsky will move?
That's what it was made for, or?
in reply to Jörgi (chaos.social)

@joergi the shocking part is that they would move to a shady private for-profit company with an infrastructure that is still half-baked and not fully independent from Bluesky PBC.

Whereas Eurosky has been making real strides towards independence and is building everything in the open, via a Dutch foundation.

W Social just copied Eurosky and did a "vampire attack" launching publicly before them...

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

But W is officially supported by the EU as their official social media, or am I wrong?
in reply to Jörgi (chaos.social)

@joergi no, it was debunked by EuroNews. But now they have unofficial support from the EC I guess... a tacit one since they just moved their account there
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

Okay, just had now the time to read your articles
...
Wtf. I was totally mislead.... Now i understand your comments here... Wtf
in reply to Jörgi (chaos.social)

@joergi haha welcome to the dark (or is it the enlightened?) side. I’m glad my posts now make sense. I suppose you may understand my desire to pursue this topic now 😅
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

Definitely.
I read it, when they announced it, and thought it was kind of officially...
Let's see how this will all end.
I'm happy that I jumped on the Fediverse train and not the ATproto train back then...
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

I have many friends on fB (most in the UK) clamouring for an alternative, but very resistant to making new muscle memories… so will share this.
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

I would like to know how much W. paid to them. Must have been more than a dinner in Davos. #sarcasmAlarm

But could become an interesting study about the old claim that social media networks grow by the existence of prominent people only.

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

Oh wow! That clearly doesn't make this WSocial case any better... ^

Since you've said you'll be writing about it, but I've not yet seen an article about it from you, I think this could be of interest to you, @adfichter

#WSocial

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

@usti

I haven't seen the original video... but here is a brief interview at the conference w/ Anna Zeiter talking about WSocial:

YouTube.com/watch?v=hNVAbSxydUg

@n/L
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

> Do I have to write a THIRD article about W now? 🫠

Well, isn't what's “WWW” about? :thonking:

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

This might be a good time to see if you can find an ally - or a few - with journalistic and/or political muscle that can help introduce your current information into something that can become actionable. I'm not suggesting you 'let go' of what you've discovered, but I'm suggesting partnering with someone who has a network you can plug into.

So far, the players seem to be scheming and not too far out of the starting gate yet, but those who should know what you know aren't aware yet.

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

We Germans have a nickname for her, "Zensursula". This goes back to before she was working at the EU level.

Let's just say he has a fair few very old fashioned and dictatorial ideas about how public forums should work.

In other words, not much of a surprise.

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

Thanks for the work! Davos, follow the money, the whole launching of that platform smells like investor's interests and hard lobbyism. When journalists sound like press releases: a sign that they don't have time for more or ... lobbyism. And we all know that lobbyism is one of the biggest problems inside EU structures.
Hope they will not burn too much public money.

For the new accounts, we had a saying in the 1968s: "imagine, they make (war), and nobody joins in." Will
@EUCommission

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

“Make Europe Great Again” hat.

As the Polish meme goes “I know from whom you are”¹

This movement was kickstarted by Steve Bannon trying to transplant MAGA onto the EU. He found a lot of eager Polish supporters, including MPs and MEPs.

And with those come ties to Russia, as the main adversary of the EU.

1. “A ja wiem od kogo wy są”

@EUCommission

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

Mastodon is not really not based in one country or one company like other social networks so putting the Mastodon in that map would be misleading (probably not what they were thinking though).
This entry was edited (4 days ago)
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

it is baffling to me that they are not using Mastodon (EU instance) as their primary communication tool.

I hear the argument a lot that Mastodon is lacking reach but the instance could literally treated like a government website where the "reach" argument wouldn't count anyways.

in reply to 〽️ɪɢᴜᴇʟ

@bitbraindev SPOT ON. They could easily bridge their Mastodon account to Bluesky using BridgyFed... a Mastodon account that is truly sovereign / their own

@EUCommission

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

ah wonderful example how it is done correctly are the German official broadcast services such as @BR24 hosted on a dedicated ard.social instance.
@BR24
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

I'm reading your newer blog post and the video from the AI Monaco Conference is no longer available because “This video has been removed by the uploader“. I guess they have seen your post and acted.
in reply to n/L

@usti seriously?!?!? 🤯 I think I may have downloaded it, imagining this scenario. I need to look in my files if I can find it
@n/L
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

Sensitive content

@n/L
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

@floe

It’s not really a surprise, is it? The same @EUCommission that keeps talking about “consumers” instead of “people” and “markets” instead of “societies”?

The EU started as an economic union and until we force it to change into a true union of people and human values, it’s simply better than nothing.

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

Politics is about managing the largest group of individuals in a community with the smallest sense of reality in that community.
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

The @EUCommission and its president Ursula von der Leyen have recently migrated their ATproto (Bluesky) accounts to W Social.

Der EU Komission ist von Mitglieder rechte Gruppierungen Dominiert.

Von der Leyen Priorität Rechte Mitarbeit.

Mastodon ist wohl zu Linksversifft.....

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

> I cannot fathom why they would pick a private enterprise

I can easily not only fathom but be pretty sure why. I just do not know the sum.

@NatureMC
> lobbyism

We need to stop to use euphemisms. Not "lobbyism" but bribery. Not "investor;'s interests" but corruption.

The only place to use lobbyism for me is in the phrase "Lobbying should be punished by a life sentence for any party participating".

@EUCommission

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

I'm sure I'm missing something, but why are they bothing with W Social when they have a Mastodon instance here? is there value that W Social adds that is impossible with Mastodon? @EUCommission
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

Yeah, I get that, but I just find it odd that they don't just use Mastodon as a platform instead. I mean, is there some reason they have to use ATProto?
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

maybe it is cause there is, roughly speaking, no one on mastodon - we are so tiny, we really don't matter in the broader scheme of things

or you might ask, why are people not here but at bluesky or threads or other places ?

maybe there is something wrong with mastodon, in the sense that users don't like it ?

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

devils advocate: it's still atproto (open protocol) and they only migrated their PDS so for all intents and proposes for everyone it will be absolutely unnoticeable.

(and hurt durr data mining - everything is public so it could be mined wherever they have their PDS)

on the bluesky front you have either main bsky PDS (usanian, yuck) brewing eurosky (more like community effort) and wsocial (some entity that wants to tackle it from "business perspective".
Alternatively EU commission could run their own PDS (a'la what they do with masto).

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

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in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

"… It’s fair to say that politicians across the political spectrum would welcome this message. …"

@_elena

Cc @EUCommission

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

They migrated because A) It's European, so the assume this is more secure and looks like it's good PR. It's neither.

And B) because they are pro European AI. As much as most of Masto is against AI, European politicians and corporations are still all in on the AI hype. Why? Who knows! Maybe they really just are that dumb. Maybe they have private investments. Probably both.

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

It is a great pity that @EUCommission has chosen to do this, because it gives W Social some undeserved credibility. So please EUComm, please reconsider.

Would love to know _exactly who_ at the EU decided to do this… @hpod16?

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

I couldn't even try out this platform because I had to provide my passport to sign up... WTF!