Guess who doesn't care?

I don't mean that with personal judgment, I mean that to point out that, a whole lot of people who voted for Trump did so specifically to protest against international norms like this.

So that Trump might not technically be allowed into 38 countries would only support the perspectives of many of his voters. It confirms their thinking.

I don't know if this is a be careful what you wish for a moment, but it is what it is. To a lot of people, pointing this out only confirms their support for the guy.

again: you can say that but also realize that it would build his support in the US.

This is about political strategy. If you think supporting his rhetoric is worth it then great. You can decide for yourself whether the trade-off is for the best or not. But you do need to keep that in mind.

A whole lot of Americans will increase their support of #Trump based on that.

Again I emphasize, I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing or saying whether the trade-off is or is not worth it, I'm only saying if you want to talk about political strategy this is a major part of the equation.

@CdnCurmudgeon

#USPolitics

@volkris
We need to build our base in the US, and not sway the minds of those who have already bought the MAGA agenda. Isolating a dangerous fascist internationally helps the forces of democracy here, in the US.

This is the reason why the ANC, for instance, supported international boycotts of the apartheid government in S. Africa. We need to look at history and see what has worked previously to topple undemocratic regimes and travel bans and boycotts have been successful.

But history shows that this stuff hasn't worked. It's literally why we have Trump in the US and right-leaning movements gaining steam around the world.

History shows us the folly of that approach.

We tried it. It didn't work. It made things worse. It got these people elected.

So let's stop doing the same thing that keeps electing these people.

Yes, history shows us that the strategy doesn't work. Let's listen to history and change course.

@CdnCurmudgeon

@volkris
Trump was elected not because of a simple error in tactics. Fascism is a result of a decaying capitalist order - the failure of free trade liberalism that took root after the fall of the USSR (which had its own problems, of course). Looking at Trump as a result of a longer process that is unfolding over generations, it is clear we need to rebuild strong international left-wing movements on an agenda of economic and social justice.

Trying to placate fascists for fear that resistance will only increase their power is a tactical error that clearly never works. Too many people died in camps in Europe in the 30s and 40s as a result of that thinking.

so again, that's exactly the kind of rhetoric that got Trump elected.

You can speak in these abstract high-minded verbiage all you want, but strategically, it plays into the hands of folks like Trump. Right-wingers literally quote statements like that to build support for their causes. I hear it literally every single day.

You need to rebuild strong international left-wing movements? Okay, great! How? And I would counter with the rhetoric that you are using right in that comment builds the right wing. So even as your rhetoric is supporting the right wing, promoting their causes, how are you going to the international left-wing movement?

Great, your rhetoric is being used by the right wing to elect more right-wingers. How are you offsetting that in building the left wing at the same time?

Because as far as I can tell you're only helping the right wing with that kind of talk, not actually making the left wing any stronger in trade.

@CdnCurmudgeon

@volkris
I spent Election Day poll watching in a rural MAGA county in Nevada. I'm not sure we are going to change their minds (i.e. the Republican Party official with an Israeli flag on his rear view mirror - a Mormon who is more Zionist than me, a Jew).

I spent the days before the election knocking on doors in Reno for a union-led GOTV effort. That is the way to build our movement. The energy that the Nevada unions have is contagious and will ultimately keep that state on a progressive path. Build our movement that way, not by making attempts to talk to thr fascists.

Well you are welcome to give up.

This is the path forward. This is the only path forward. If you think it's futile, okay. Go ahead and give up. Don't waste your time on any of this.

But if you would like to change things, this is the way to change things. This is the only way to change things.

Again, if you want to just roll over and take it then go enjoy your life as best you can. I am always a supporter of the idea that people should go read books under trees and ignore all of this stuff.

If you want to change things, this is your option. If you don't want to, or you don't think the option will work, then it gets you to the same outcome either way.

This is the way to change things. Take it or don't, But I would suggest that you don't waste your time and efforts away from more fulfilling personal enterprises.

Oh, let me go ahead and emphasize that you can make things worse.

@CdnCurmudgeon