@mkoek @jonesmurphy

it's a matter of domestic vs international perspective, so i can understand your take

i would also say that if you were more aware of graham's domestic track record as us americans are, your sentiment might change

you're dutch?

if geert wilders dies and an american goes "well, i can't speak ill of the dead" it's a fine instinct, in a vacuum, but in regards to specific nasty people it doesn't hold much weight- many dutch would not agree with that take for that person

@mkoek @jonesmurphy

those other replies are not me. i only spoke of "dutch people" in the abstract. i didn't personalize it as an attack on you

myself i engage on where you are respectfully because i see no malice in your position but i do consider it to be unideal. perhaps i can convince you

the problem in our world today is:

the malicious depend upon us to have decorum, while they do not

it becomes an unfair balance that drives further malice

that's my message to you

no personal attack

@jonesmurphy @mkoek

'yeah but kamala harris has a "weird laugh," so i can't be bothered to vote. that our country slides into fascism isn't a big deal, it doesn't affect me, i'm white'

😡

i really despise this entitled fake left

but mark isn't in this rotten country

he only knows of graham from his support for ukraine. his involvement on the topic is tangential. so he can be swayed with dispassionate argument

rather than the castigation we rightfully level at white american fake leftists

@too_little_caffeine @farlukar @jonesmurphy @mkoek

that's what mamdani and the DSA are for

but the problem is the people who aren't voting, like the primaries, so no DSA candidate either

so you're talking about people who just whine and complain and don't vote, only helping MAGA win and make things shittier even faster

there is nothing in such losers worth a single fucking thing. they are just entitled useless inert assholes always fucking complaining and doing absolutely nothing about it

@too_little_caffeine @farlukar @mkoek Josh Wood, nobody owes you the perfect candidate. If you don't like the available options, run for something:

runforsomething.net/?

@too_little_caffeine @jonesmurphy @farlukar @mkoek

people who say "i want better or i'm not voting" when offered better say "i want even better or i'm not voting"

because their point is holier-than-thou self-regard, not participating constructively

real leftists are in the mud working hard with a sucky payoff

but they put in the fucking work so they eventually get better

that i respect

i don't listen to nor respect entitled whiners who think endless demands and not doing shit is "helping"

@xenophyte @too_little_caffeine @jonesmurphy @farlukar @mkoek

I am primarily on your side, but it needs to be said (particularly here) that there are people who would otherwise be allied in this fight, but cannot because the Dems won’t fight for them, and in many cases actually oppose them.

There are huge differences between the parties, but on the main issue for the trans community, not nearly enough.

@jonesmurphy @xenophyte @too_little_caffeine @farlukar @mkoek

Fuck off troll.

@edsanders2 @jonesmurphy @xenophyte @too_little_caffeine @farlukar @mkoek

if people voted, we could take over the democrats, the mamdani template

if people do not vote, and just whine online, they are helping MAGA in their inaction

that's not trolling, that's simple reality

it does not matter what centrist dems think. fuck them, why do you care about them

just replace them

but we can't replace them, because some people will use any excuse to do nothing, and consider themselves "righteous"

@too_little_caffeine @edsanders2 @jonesmurphy @xenophyte @farlukar @mkoek

it doesn't matter that shitlibs exist, it matters that certain people do not get off their fucking ass and vote

if we want to change our world, we engage, we participate. if we want to stand on the sidelines and whine that assholes exist in the democrats this is just weak excuse making of ineffectual impotent losers

did that stop mamdani?

mamdani is the way forward: take over the democratic party. so fucking VOTE

@too_little_caffeine @edsanders2 @jonesmurphy @xenophyte @farlukar @mkoek

did you vote in the primaries? that's when the "who" part is decided

we have horrible democrat candidates BECAUSE assholes don't vote

@too_little_caffeine @jonesmurphy @xenophyte @farlukar @mkoek

they tried to push cuomo down our throats and we showed up and got mamdani

if we went "they are trying to push cuomo down our throats, waah waah, life sucks and then you die, waah waah, it's never worth it to get off our ass and vote, waah waah" then we would have cuomo

do you get it?

NONVOTERS ARE THE PROBLEM. the self-fulfilling prophecy of toxic useless whiny stupid cynicism

@too_little_caffeine @jonesmurphy @xenophyte @farlukar @mkoek

Mamdani was a choice because the voters fucking showed up and put him on the ballot in the primaries

Bad candidates do not cause nonvoters

Nonvoters cause bad candidates

@jonesmurphy @xenophyte @farlukar @mkoek Right, but Mamdani was on the ballot. The other part of the equation is having someone worth voting for. Non-voters show up in droves when the options aren't shitty and less shitty.

I don't think the finger wagging is really all that helpful.

@too_little_caffeine @jonesmurphy @xenophyte @farlukar @mkoek

nope

nonvoters presented with a better option go "they aren't perfect" and still don't vote

because their concern isn't bettering our world

their concern is tweaking their smug sense of superiority and entitlement to do nothing but whine, at the expense of us sliding into fascism

they don't care about that

they are fake leftists, just empty whiny losers

avoid this pathetic trap in life

vote and participate to better our world

@too_little_caffeine @jonesmurphy @xenophyte @farlukar @mkoek

i'm confused

you're saying nonvoters are liberals?

what?

@too_little_caffeine @jonesmurphy @xenophyte @farlukar @mkoek

there are many flavors of nonvoter

maga who don't vote, neocons who don't vote, liberals who don't vote, etc, etc

the USA is 1/3 mind controlled MAGA bigot voters, 1/3 positively engaged left leaning voters, and then this vast 1/3 of disengaged losers

and since elections are decided by small percentages, and trying to appeal to MAGA is gross and stupid, we have to hack at those leftists who aren't voting and convince them to vote

@too_little_caffeine @jonesmurphy @xenophyte @farlukar @mkoek

some say to me "Ben, calling nonvoters losers doesn't convince them"

on the contrary playing codependent enabler catering to ineffectual broken psychology, cynicism and perfectionism, pays 0 dividends

what you do is you hack at the moronic reasons these assholes don't vote

and yes: many just get pissed off and tune out. utterly lost souls who don't care

but some are listening

and all we need is a small percentage to defeat MAGA

@too_little_caffeine @xenophyte @farlukar @mkoek there's a re-surging group of non-voters who are being prevented from voting by Confederate tricks & traps designed to make it harder for specific groups to vote. Supreme Court Republicans have had the majority for 56 years, and have used it to roll back the Voting Rights Act of 1965 at an accelerating pace:

theguardian.com/us-news/2020/m…

Texas closes hundreds of polling sites, making it harder for minorities to vote

Guardian analysis finds that places where black and Latino population is growing by the largest numbers experienced the majority of closures and could benefit Republicans

^{Guardian staff reporter (The Guardian)}

@jonesmurphy @nobrainnopain

i would say that the rich use the bigots to get in power and stay in power, and the bigots use the rich to abuse minorities

the transaction is:

1. i, the #bigot, don't mind being robbed, as long as you abuse minorities

2. i, the #plutocrat, don't mind abusing minorities, as long as i keep my rent seeking parasite existence

the plutocrat-bigot political axis is real

not *all* of them, you're right about that. but enough of them

#plutocracy #bigotry