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Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.

I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!

Roni Rolle Laukkarinen reshared this.

in reply to Scott Jenson

As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022

Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.

Roni Rolle Laukkarinen reshared this.

in reply to Scott Jenson

I’m not interested in following any “AI people”. That doesn’t make it an echo chamber. We don’t need equal amounts of people who love puppies and want to kill puppies, not everything needs to be equally represented.

reshared this

in reply to Eugen Rochko

That is a personal choice and one which I totally respect. But I do think Mastodon should be big enough, and open enough, to allow an "AI community" to form, even thrive.

Too many people in my replies don't seem to agree with that.

in reply to Scott Jenson

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, stopping anyone from creating and cultivating an AI community on Mastodon. Start a server. Knock yourself out.

But expecting to *farm acceptance* from a group of people, one which most members vastly dislike AI, is quite the hubris.

But sure, the community at large is the problem.

Clean up your kitchen and maybe folks will join you for a meal.

in reply to FeloniousPunk

@FeloniousPunk @Gargron Adopting an attitude of persecution as primarily white dude tech bros akin to the abusive experience of Black Twitter on Fedi is...a choice.

Crying that no one wants to play with you because the entire industry is abusive AF and literally nobody in the wider fediverse wants it forced on us is HILARIOUS.

Go away, weirdo.

in reply to FeloniousPunk

@FeloniousPunk There ought to be an AI instance which all the bros and boosters can go to, and then I can block it in one go. That would be ultra-efficient.

Unfortunately the real fedi is a lot more messy.

in reply to Scott Jenson

@Gargron I'd have to ask, what value would an an AI Booster community bring to the FediVerse?
in reply to cratermoon

@cratermoon @Gargron nobody has to earn their place on the Fediverse. Access to free and open social networking is a human right. You don't get to gatekeep this network.
in reply to Evan Prodromou

@evan @cratermoon Exactly, even asking that question "What value do they bring" is kind of scary.

It's a fine line, I get it. We draw the line at nazis and scammers but let's not cross the line into "intellectual purity" tests

in reply to Scott Jenson

@evan @cratermoon For a lot of people, the category of "scammers" encompasses most of the AI industry, so drawing the line at one is drawing the line at the other. Many of the people you see as demanding "intellectual purity" see themselves as working to protect themselves and their communities from exploitation, and you're not likely to talk them out of that position if you can't bring yourself to see those concerns from their POV.
in reply to Scott Jenson

@Gargron I just came back to my Mastodon account and one of the first things I see is people who have an interest in something being compared to puppy-killers by the "head" of Mastodon.

<turns it back off again>

in reply to Scott Jenson

I'm not sure what the problem is supposed to be here. The fediverse has about 1/10th the MAUs of either of the other two platforms, so 18k is a proportionately high number of followers. Lower engagement makes sense with fewer followers, but without more info, it's impossible to know if that engagement is disproportionately lower. And particularly given Meta's forays into AI bots, there's a good chance that more of Mastodon's engagement is authentic. If anything, I'd say that post speaks comparatively well of Mastodon's embrace of journalists. Our big sin is just not being as populous as the corporate platforms.
in reply to Scott Jenson

Or maybe we all come here to get away from the politics and the AI BS
in reply to Ben Hardill

@ben But that's the very definition of a mono-culture. A vibrant community allows all of these topics, encourages them even. Then, with filters, who you follow, hashtags, and blocking you get the feed you want.

To get the culture you want by cutting off the supply is counter productive.

in reply to Scott Jenson

But I get pushed US politics all day by the main stream media & I'm not even in the US & current politics (here & there) is heavily slanted towards manufactured wedge issues.

AI is a similar, for me the moral and environmental arguments against are plenty before we get into the rest, yet as I work in software it's impossible to get away from.

So I come to a place where I can choose not to engage with it, I block/mute very little, I mainly ignore it if it ends up in my feed.

This entry was edited (1 week ago)
in reply to Ben Hardill

@ben and I want to support you, you have every right to view what you want. I'm not asking you to see anything you don't want.

I'm just saying that solving this issue by gatekeeping is a slippery slope. We need better filtering tools, not a purity test of who is allowed to post here.

in reply to Scott Jenson

I may have miss understood the initial post, I'm not suggesting the journalists shouldn't post, just that I think their engagement measurement may not be the right metric (but it is the one they are used to)
This entry was edited (1 week ago)
in reply to Ben Hardill

@ben So, a little context from a former journalist: I asked my boss if I could start and manage a mastodon account for my publication, and she advised that we would have to conduct a study to justify the use of my time - a company asset - by measuring traffic that mastodon drove to our site. Because this is a respectful space, there was no real way to track clicks, so I couldn't justify it and I ended up deleting the account I had already started. It's often not a matter of the journalist's lack of imagination or excess of ego, but their need to meet metrics.
in reply to Scott Jenson

Not sure anyone is particularly shouting for journalists to join? Like, I've not found myself gagging for them to spice up a conversation.

Numbers down? Maybe people have figured out that social media is bad for their mental health?

in reply to Charlie O’Hara

@awfulwoman Two very separate points:
1. Do you (or even many others) want journalists here? The is a very personal choice and you can want (or not want) anything you wish. That isn't really what's on the table.
2. Should Journalists be allowed to be here? I think you know where I stand on this. It's a subtle point (one which I was just reminded maybe shouldn't be discussed in Post form) But I do believe that encouraging a wider range of voices is critical to our success in building out a robust social media landscape. We can't gatekeep and only let in "the right folks" that of course is impossible as that definition varies for every person here.
in reply to Scott Jenson

let’s rephrase it then: I’m highly indifferent to journalists being on here. And that’s very different from “let’s change the culture of the fediverse to encourage them to join”.

And don’t get me wrong, the culture on here can be fucking annoying - I swear I will launch through the screen at the next humourless “yes, but” German furry response to one of my posts.

But if the nature of the fediverse isn’t inimical to journalism then is that something to change, or accept as a fact?

in reply to Charlie O’Hara

I certainly don’t miss people boosting their work for clicks or career advancement. And again, that isn’t the same as “professional journalists are unwelcome”. I just won’t engage with that. But will I engage with some producing interesting work that matches my interests? Certainly.

That I (and I suspect, others) don’t automatically see those as being the same thing is probably the issue.

in reply to Charlie O’Hara

I think the typical Mastodon user certainly does have severe problem with how they interact with others. That’s a function of the personality/brain type that gets attracted here. I’m certainly not a fan of that, and yes it creates a monoculture of interaction style- but I will infinitely take it over the Big Tent “let’s all homogeneously scream in public” paradigm of Twitter where there was a monoculture of *content* style.
This entry was edited (1 week ago)
in reply to Charlie O’Hara

@awfulwoman But my point wasn't *specifically* about journalists, it was just an example of one person that a) wasn't getting traction and b) the 1% of the deplorables wanted to chase them away.

My point way much more broad, about using this as a wedge example of allowing a much wider array of people into Mastodon. Just because you don't like self promoting morons (I don't either of course) doesn't mean we should be actively chasing them away. Not because I want them! But for a much simpler reason: It's very hard to objectively define what a "promoting moron" is. More importantly, they might do it AND be a really valuable person to the community.

There is so much simplistic black and white thinking about who someone is and so many are willing to say "Begone!" for the flimsiest of reasons.

in reply to Scott Jenson

@awfulwoman I find it mindblowing that you think Obasanjo "isn't getting traction" when he's one of the most followed people on the network. If I were looking for examples of gatekeeping journalists off of the fediverse, he's one of the last accounts I'd think to cite. Which makes it seem like the part of his post that really led you down this path was "hates AI." And it may be true that the fediverse is more hostile toward AI than Threads or Bluesky, but that clearly hasn't led our network to ostracize Obasanjo. So what actually is the complaint here?
in reply to Scott Jenson

OK, this is going even MORE sideways so I need to make a few things clear:
1. I took a complex point and made it poorly
2. My goal was to ask for more inclusiveness
3. I am sickened by what happend to BlackTwitter and I don't want it recur
4. But I can't speak for BlackTwitter nor should I
5. I apologize to black mastodon users for making such a poor comparison
6. I'm not endorsing "AI Slop" they were a foil to make my point
7. I'm certainly NOT trying to compare AI bros to Black twitter (but, as I said, I can see how people made that connection. I'm trying to correct that here)
in reply to Scott Jenson

idk, I think AI boosters can go fuck themselves all the way back to Bluesky, where they're welcome to hang out with the rest of the AI venture capital echo chamber. Simple as.