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Watching a talk about #Time from philosopher Matt Farr - very interesting! Which leads me to the question:

Do you think that time exists?

#Philosophy

  • Yes - Time is real (64%, 18 votes)
  • No - Time is an illusion (14%, 4 votes)
  • Not sure / see results (21%, 6 votes)
28 voters. Poll end: 2 days ago

#philosophy #time
in reply to El Duvelle

Paul Saproza
Paul Saproza
• •
of course then it all depends on what’s called time

El Duvelle reshared this.

in reply to Paul Saproza

manisha
manisha
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@paulsaproza I'd add that it also depends on what is "real". Reminds me of this quote by Morpheus in The Matrix (which made its way into my PhD thesis 😄):

“What is real? How do you define 'real'? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain."


#neuroscience

#neuroscience @Paul Saproza
This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to manisha

El Duvelle
El Duvelle
• •

@manisha @paulsaproza
adding @kofanchen @neuralreckoning

So, I guess my take on this is, if you can measure / detect it, then it's real:

  • you can measure neural activity in your brain so it is real (the activity, at least)
  • you can also measure, say, the light coming from the sun independently of your brain, so these photons are real
  • you can measure the density of a tree trunk so the tree is real

But.. Can we measure time? Not really. Instead we observe the hands of a clock which move because of some mechanical force. Or we look at the movements of the sun and moon. "Time" doesn't move the hands of a clock, or the Earth..

So, Time doesn't exist 🤔🙃😣

@manisha @Ko-Fan Chen 陳克帆 @Dan Goodman @Paul Saproza
in reply to El Duvelle

Holly A. Gultiano
Holly A. Gultiano
• •

@manisha @paulsaproza @kofanchen @neuralreckoning I think clock and calendar time is less real, because they're lossy approximations of the rotation of the planet with arbitrary metrics attached (the time here is currently 10_mod(12):56_mod(60), on the 17th of December, which is Latin for "tenth month").

The thermodynamic arrow of time is more real, since entropy is measurable youtube.com/watch?v=6slug9rjaI…

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@manisha @Ko-Fan Chen 陳克帆 @Dan Goodman @Paul Saproza
in reply to El Duvelle

Dan Goodman
Dan Goodman
• •
@manisha @paulsaproza @kofanchen I'd say all those measurements including time are theory laden and indirect. I don't see the distinction here.
@manisha @Ko-Fan Chen 陳克帆 @Paul Saproza
in reply to Dan Goodman

El Duvelle
El Duvelle
• •

@neuralreckoning Yeah.. You might be right. But I feel there is a distinction. maybe it's just too far beyond the extent of my knowledge in physics 😅

@manisha @paulsaproza @kofanchen

@manisha @Ko-Fan Chen 陳克帆 @Dan Goodman @Paul Saproza
in reply to El Duvelle

Holly A. Gultiano
Holly A. Gultiano
• •
@manisha @paulsaproza @kofanchen @neuralreckoning A lot of the "time doesn't exist" arguments are based on time reversibility in QM. I found this paper addressing the Loschmidt paradox, "why does irreversibility arise from time symmetry?"
dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handl…
If entropy is reduced, quantum mutual information is also reduced, so the reduction cannot be observed and is functionally equivalent to it not happening
@manisha @Ko-Fan Chen 陳克帆 @Dan Goodman @Paul Saproza
in reply to El Duvelle

Dan Goodman
Dan Goodman
• •
depends on context. In the context of theoretical physics, who knows? but I wouldn't be surprised to find out it's more complicated than we might think or even be able to imagine. In the context of almost all the rest of science and everyday life it's a pretty straightforward yes it's real.
in reply to El Duvelle

Ko-Fan Chen 陳克帆
Ko-Fan Chen 陳克帆
• •
I am not sure but what is clearly for me is that the variation of gene expression occurs in one dimension that we called "time", and there are even cellular mechanisms that generate cyclical variation against certain time period eg : 24 hour #circadian rhythm. When we think about time, we tend to imagine this continuous passing but in most case we become aware of time via oscillatory variation. Now does it make "time" real? 🤷
#circadian
in reply to Ko-Fan Chen 陳克帆

Ko-Fan Chen 陳克帆
Ko-Fan Chen 陳克帆
• •
also we tend to think "space" is pretty real but probably because we rely on visual input to sense the world: we can "see" distance etc, but for organism relies on hearing, they probably think time *is more real, as time is prerequisite for them to sense the distance and space
This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to El Duvelle

cy
cy
• •
How can you think anything at all, if time isn't real?
in reply to cy

El Duvelle
El Duvelle
• •
@cy chemical, electrical and mechanical reactions in your brain, why would we need another variable (time) on top of all that?
@cy
in reply to cy

El Duvelle
El Duvelle
• •
@cy sure, but that's because of some physical property of the things reacting, not because of an inherent time delay that would be independent from everything else. The duration of a reaction is a convenient parameter that we can use a posteriori to describe the reaction. But there is no "time force" acting on the molecules one way or another..
@cy
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