@rastinza WOW this is most intriguing and pleasantly disturbing... the average person has little-to-no chance other than umbrella term but I feel a bit of progress was made... and will put some comments below most for Rastinza:
1/ capitalism and free market can or cannot be the same thing?
➡️ I would say yes when merged and even if separate to start with becomes capitalism by nature of bringing together and if they are not mutually exclusive together and not very far being able to inter-operate together.
2/ Free Market variant is hard to achieve on it's own?
➡️ I agree it may be unachievable unless a lot of things are not present. And if they are present ruins Free Market and only flavours a bit whatever you try add it to.
3/ Oxford dictionary definition seems what the average person and most would agree with...
➡️ it mentions "for profit" but not all short definitions elsewhere mention profit and interestingly can be "...private ownership of capital" so using the word "capital" itself and no mention of profit... not sure if this is a clue but I'm guessing ownership of capital (which is wealth, money, business, human resources, economic value) perhaps always leads to profit even if occasionally you don't have to or don't have it in mind as the main thing. You kinda have to make profit / shift surpluses to yourself of some kind even if it's not money.
❓ Can you have capitalism without profit... I guess depending on which flavour but most are for-profit it seems and YOU MUST profit else you don't have most types of capitalism or any capital.
❓ If above is true, does it suggest all #equality is ruined by capitalism itself - directly or eventually from the system forcing or being of nature towards profit as the main (hoarding / accumulating wealth, suckign energy of the people, controlling things, power-struggles, dog-eat-dog companies / states etc even if not distinctly mentioned in short descriptions).
2/ #Plutocracy might not be the best from all this - true, but does achieve two things!
🔴 Gets people to look up the word!
🔴 Makes it simple as 'rich' even though any democratic part in the world takes a hit usnig this word and assumes it's almost *all* rich people (which actually I think it *almost* is !!!!)
⬆️ It would be about the rich almost from way back in time if a few almost-aesthic things collapsed again (which were only a faceade of 'democracy perhaps). Since all existence of life may be based on those things of Kings etc, it seems history is overwhelmingly more than people "understanding" things or doing any democratic process (until things get too extreme and then something is done about it, but that's not democratic always either).
So I feel it's more top level / wealthy again and aesthetics of which rich person or which liar you get 'democratically'... today is all built on those things and just becoming mini-games within that? ❓
Not trying to ruin your version but coming from kings, families with wealth, land, strong bonds, technology being decisive... not sure how we can undo all that or not continue it in genuine "democratic" way. Honestly most people couldn't do it even if their life depended on it and that's part of why we're here I'm very very sure of that having tried / tested people personally! Just like working with dud people when you come down to talking 10+minutes and though they live and seem normal / able people. Just towing the line mainly. (which is why I want to change people's communication ability more than code or increase tech for the same things to happen between unhappy / uneducated . unloving people).
⚫ But true the rich don't have direct political power I guess, though even today it's seemingly proving even less needed, so perhaps they still indirectly buy power, talk betwee themselves, buy people of various kinds and that almost super-seeds / overwrites public and gets re-labelled at various points down the line even after any public or democraticc victory (gets er-done or undone later and we see it's just encroaching suffocating life). Even if for a while seems public gets there way, it's done behind back again or reworked later, oil pipeline is re-opened or just made where protest will be less.
And the hand can be put on should on anyone in hierarchy ...
And we see people / parents / teachers doing it despite the logic of that decision made by their supervisor, higher rank- unless they want to die by the sword of morality / staying true to themselves.
4/ Rastinza you mentioned "state capitalism" but I mentioned "state monopoly" capitalism - so just making sure because I think you *can* have capitalism in the popular sense where states govern it as a monopoly or main controlling party but it's not free market - just a kind of revolving door or meme picture of choice of doors leading back to the same things. Limited choice let's say.
5/ Absolutely disagree with this paragraph below
You said "you don't have a bunch of people deciding what the economy should produce according to how much profit they can make, but rather politicians and economists taking decisions according to what they feel is better for the nation."
⬆️ That sounds really naive - it's almost all for profit!! And seems ignoring everything is State controlled and regulated, to the extent that yes I feel and see by design State decides where they are going, NOT the politician and economist ➡️ "for the better of the nation" ⬅️ 😃
Because they might not know what's best, and anyway not able to overrule it even if they tried or had all the evidence otherwise.
Politicians and economists are seemingly purely there to follow the main stream of thought / wil from top and provide commentary like an employee - to follow mostly - yes a few rogues out there but nothing at all for changing the #system.
Systems are not there to change themselves generally 😃 but cut out all that caring or detail stuff and get the booty / cash !
We see how often even the truth gets them / us, how far all the evidence out there gets.
State has final say (even if wrong - they determine the logic and often it's not logical and cruel actually to maintain power!). It owns all the puppets by nature of keeping them 'alive', and changes those values to kill them / die them off, or incentivizes the bullies and stronger folks (even academics and brains), punishes according to whatever thinking suits them more NOT PEOPLE!
So probably talks between themselves happen a lot and likely is that they are there to their self-given jobs alive ETC! NOT FOR BENEFIT OF ANY "NATION" feeling of that's long gone, BUT TO EXTRACT FROM IT! (that's their "business" model and not there to provide even people things to do and have a "pleasant life" among themselves!). No way.
And if you didn't see how disposable and crushing all that is / has been then I'm not sure how to say more. We're only there because they might need us and as soon as we're not we'll be cut off / phased out / exterminated, replaced by a machine. Why pay for excess humans?
That whole nation thing gives me the idea that people are doing it because they care or care more about nation than taking care of themselves.
Pretty sure also every nation has lost it's identity and culture also and it's just like similar sports teams that come together like #gladiators and gladiator-it-out leaving not much useful at the end but profits of one or the other.
Hope you can give me the arrow where I'm wrong but people doing it for people when on team "State" is like you think the job of politicians and economists (to do things almost *to* other rather than with them) is going to really take into consideration what they think and restore this world into cat-loving nature place with less money and not-for-profit give-it-to-the-children's-future ways!
Ok that's long and perhaps a bit of a sub-point but it's still about those ruling us... are if they going to actually give it back to us.. lol...
Is interesting. Thanks in advance.
